Show Dilemma

[Argent II]

Chat discussion between myself and Nate.

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(15:44:52) Nate: Darn dressage shows
(15:44:59) Argent_II: wut?
(15:45:10) Nate: Filled with all such nice horses
(15:45:16) Argent_II: lol
(15:45:34) Nate: I'm tired of using local shows for the marchadors
(15:45:36) Argent_II: maybe I need to crush
(15:45:56) Nate: Maybe I will simply enter the trained-ish ones in shows and see how it turns out
(15:46:10) Nate: But my MM are most suited for wipple, dressage, and hunter
(15:46:19) Nate: So maybe screw everything else and just wipple
(15:46:26) nyraeia.: wipple?
(15:46:31) Nate: But I can only enter one horse per wipple show so Thats really hard
(15:46:35) Argent_II: western pleasure
(15:46:35) Nate: Western please
(15:46:40) Nate: Pleasure*
(15:46:43) nyraeia.: xD
(15:46:47) Nate: Morby did it. She made it wipple.
(15:46:51) Nate: Now I can't stop
(15:46:53) Argent_II: yus, we need hiring riders
(15:46:57) Nate: I am powerless against her
(15:47:19) Nate: That would be nice
(15:47:25) Nate: Hiring riders. Yeah.
(15:48:24) Nate: Now I have several partially trained horses that I want to make a bit of money on if possible, but its hard to determine who to show in what
[...]
(15:51:49) Nate: I just need to start showing my young horses in wipple from when they turn old enough. No other option
(15:54:50) nyraeia.: I love wipple
(15:55:00) Nate: I wish players would show their horses before getting to 99.9% in everything :(
(15:56:17) Argent_II: >.>
(15:56:28) Argent_II: :D
(15:56:41) Nate: You don't show at all, you're excused. For now
(15:56:55) Argent_II: I do show, just very rarely
(15:57:05) Argent_II: all of six horses
(15:57:12) Nate: But its frustrating when the recent winning scores for horses are within a point of each other from level 1 all the way to level 8
(15:57:26) Argent_II: :/
(15:57:43) Argent_II: maybe there needs to be training caps per level
(15:58:07) Argent_II: though the overtrain horses would be kicked into higher levels pretty quickly
(15:58:29) Nate: The issue with that is truly poor horses
(15:58:43) Nate: And adoption center horses. It becomes impossible to show them
(15:58:45) Argent_II: ah yeah
(15:58:51) Nate: But its pretty impossible already
(15:59:00) Argent_II: AC horses should have their own circuit
(15:59:22) Nate: What about AC-caliber bred horses
(15:59:27) Nate: I have a stable full of them
(15:59:44) Argent_II: they'd just be screwed for a bit I guess?
(15:59:50) Nate: I don't wanna be the very best
(16:00:02) Argent_II: unless you do brackets by GP
(16:00:08) Nate: I just wanna be able to do decently. A "level 1" horse doesn't exist
(16:00:20) Nate: Yeah, that could be done.
(16:00:30) Nate: It would discourage cross-showing some
(16:00:40) Nate: But I don't honestly think that's a horrible idea
(16:00:52) Nate: So many horses are record holders in like, 5 thinks
(16:00:55) Nate: Things
(16:01:38) Argent_II: cross showing will be heavily penalized once skill training is added anyway
(16:01:49) Nate: yes
(16:01:59) Argent_II: unless you cross train in something like the racing disciplines
(16:02:14) Nate: yeah those would be pretty easy
(16:02:26) Nate: but a horse should not be able to hold records in dressage and wipple
(16:02:28) Nate: shouldn't be done
(16:02:32) Nate: not that i've seen one
(16:02:35) Nate: but as an example
(16:02:37) Nate: of insanity
(16:03:27) Argent_II: two very different movements, but similar stats, like hunter/dressage
(16:03:46) Nate: what's an AC horse's GP like? like 30,000 ish? no less than 25,000?
(16:04:08) nyraeia.: Sometimes it's just so interesting reading what you two think
(16:04:26) Nate: i don't know what you mean by that
(16:04:31) Nate: is it good? bad? crazy?
(16:05:07) nyraeia.: Mostly good
(16:05:12) nyraeia.: And a bit crazy
(16:05:24) Argent_II: I've got a NAB with 31k
(16:05:40) nyraeia.: You know so much about the game
(16:05:42) Argent_II: so yeah, 30 would be reasonable
(16:07:01) Argent_II: also, limiting conditioning will be problematic once you get into the higher player skills. you can max training in like 2 years, before the horse is really even able to compete
(16:07:26) Nate: yeah you can
(16:07:37) Argent_II: the addition of actual skills will slow that down some. as will probable penalties for training young horses
(16:07:48) Nate: do you think a simple recommended showing level will be effective?
(16:08:09) Nate: there's a possibility players enter their horses into lower level shows when they really shouldn't cause they just don't know where they should be at
(16:08:11) Argent_II: depends on what the reccomendation is based on
(16:08:41) Argent_II: I don't think anyone doesn't know that they don't need to enter lower levels
(16:09:04) Argent_II: not if you're starting a horse on the show circuit with 100% training
(16:09:37) Nate: true
(16:09:57) Nate: a hard stop would be more effective but might really screw new players over
(16:10:54) Nate: and i don't think it would be alleviated if there were penalties for training young horses or skill showing
(16:11:05) Argent_II: maybe we need to have newbie only shows and have AC horse only shows
(16:11:23) Nate: i kind of like the idea of brackets by GP
(16:11:42) Nate: buuuuuuuuuuuut the last time i talked to boss about splitting shows even more she was hesitant cause even now, some disciplines don't have many shows
(16:12:17) Nate: unless level were tied to gp. like level 1 would be exclusively for horses with less than 35,000 GP regardless of training
(16:12:23) Nate: that wouldn't multiply the types of shows
(16:16:31) Argent_II: I think she needs to set up game run shows, or increase the number of shows individual players can make
(16:17:02) Nate: both sounds good
(16:17:04) Argent_II: I would run shows in every discipline if it didn't take up spaces for dressage shows
(16:17:40) Argent_II: I also wants to make lots of high paying dressage shows, but I don't have enough spaces to do everything I would like
(16:18:25) Nate: yeah
(16:18:33) Nate: i mean, some event already have a shortage of entries
(16:19:18) Argent_II: no, players would just be able to underfill more shows XD
(16:19:28) Nate: inded
(16:19:40) Argent_II: and since auto running shows after x days needs to be a thing, it wouldn't be a big issue

SparkNotes: AC-only and newbie-only shows, limiting shows by training OR genetic potential, increasing number of shows a player can host AND/OR adding game-run shows

[Kayaine]

I support for adding to shows a player can host or adding game run shows. I don't think I'd like training or GP limited shows, but I'd be ok with AC or newbie only shows. Although, you'd have a hard time determining what classifies a person as a newbie. Maybe if they've earned a certain number of points in an event, they could move between like newbie, beginner, intermediate, advanced, and expert levels?

[Argent II]

"Newbie" would just be based on player level. You gain exp doing everything, so it's the most accurate guide of how active a player has been.

[Kayaine]

"Newbie" would just be based on player level. You gain exp doing everything, so it's the most accurate guide of how active a player has been.

That being said, I had a pretty high player level before I ever dipped my toes into the show ring, so I feel like a more points based system might be better.

[Argent II]

The point of the newbie category is for people who are just starting to get to know the game, not just starting in showing. Case in point, this account has maybe 10k show points... but I'm level 48. I have no business in a newbie category.

[Revenant]

This all sounds like pretty reasonable, I'd say. I suppose genetic potential shows would be a bit like halter classes, sort of?

[Devolare]

This is a bit off topic, but still kinda on? --
I've been thinking about this for a bit. I was mostly thinking about the levels. Currently, there really isn't much of a point for the levels. Seeing as one horse could get trained to max and then break every record with the same score from level 1 to 10. There are times when level 9 can be easier than level 1 because the horse that could break the level 9 score, just did a bunch of level 8 shows and got bumped to level 10. The only level I could see always being higher, for the most part, is level 10 because all the top horses are constantly showing at level 10. Levels 1 to 9 will all be the same difficulty, so doing any of the low level local shows tends to be pointless seeing as they earn less money.

I'm not sure how this would be fixed, or if should even be fixed...I just figured I'd bring this up for discussion. I guess you could wait till your horse drops down levels, but that takes a long while (if you can ever get down to the level you want). The only thing I can think of (which is the reason I'm posting this here), is perhaps limiting each level, not just specific shows, by the amount of training a horse can have? It'd probably be really difficult to implement now that completely trained horses have been running at lower levels, though.

Idk I just figured I'd mention it and see what people think.

[Totina]

One way to limit the amount of fully trained horses in lower levels is also to lower the age limit for the event. A younger horse is more likely to not have reached the amount of training as older horses have had more time for training.

I also want to note that there are always some shows where the run date has passed, which means that they will run as soon as there are 5 horses entered. With only 5 horses competing the chance of winning is much higher even with untrained horses. I usually try to fill up these events whenever possible to gain some extra points and to just get them out of the way in the upcoming events list.

[Xant’hippe]

Level 10 shows are difficult for many players and horses because they are currently the highest level available. Horses move up to them when they accumulate ~100 points in the discipline; then they compete directly against everyone from another NewAndHopeful with 100 points to the AlmightySupremeMasterGrandChampions with 10K to 50K (and up) points.

The show scale would benefit from more levels at the top, so that NoChampYet has a reasonable opportunity to advance.

And players who haven't even attained Level 10 yet might need a different "league" from the super proficient player characters as well.

[Argent II]

Nate and I already discussed those two solutions and neither is viable. Limiting training would force low quality horses to move up the levels before they have a chance to be competitive. Lowering ages would do roughly the same thing, on top of punishing players who do not have high player skills; you can max out training by age 4 or 5 with all of your player training skills maxed.