new stud question grinders

[moneysucces]

Hi All im new and I do have some questions

Firs of Im new but bin trying to read a lot about how to start the game and found that starting guide super helpfull I read a that grinders are helpfull but not sure how much I should safe up for that... any ideas would be helpfull Im planning to have an arabian stable:)

Than I wonder if anyone would ever breed to a stallion like these for cheap and how cheap would that be https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4257757

I do Always love breeding in games so wonder will a trained horse give better foals or is pairing important
Is it possibal for a beginner to start out with breeding lines or would be buying better

Also I see persons that can basicaly go forever with turns is this possibal without premium i do have a lot of time on my hands and would love to progress a little faster that waiting for turns is a pain lol

Is there a way with skils etc to ingrease how many turns you can collect if so wich one

Well im asking a lot sorry for that just try to learn the game and trying to achieve something

Thanks in advange for all youre replyss

[BlackOak2]

Hi All im new and I do have some questions

Firs of Im new but bin trying to read a lot about how to start the game and found that starting guide super helpfull I read a that grinders are helpfull but not sure how much I should safe up for that... any ideas would be helpfull Im planning to have an arabian stable:)

Than I wonder if anyone would ever breed to a stallion like these for cheap and how cheap would that be https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4257757

I do Always love breeding in games so wonder will a trained horse give better foals or is pairing important
Is it possibal for a beginner to start out with breeding lines or would be buying better

Also I see persons that can basicaly go forever with turns is this possibal without premium i do have a lot of time on my hands and would love to progress a little faster that waiting for turns is a pain lol

Is there a way with skils etc to ingrease how many turns you can collect if so wich one

Well im asking a lot sorry for that just try to learn the game and trying to achieve something

Thanks in advange for all youre replyss

You keep asking away and we'll keep answering the best we can.

Here's for your first set of questions:
Grinders are useful and a viable horse for every player on this game. I always suggest that whatever path you choose, make sure you always include a grinder spot on your farm. As for prices, if you ask on the forums, your first grinder is usually acquired for free ($1 pickup) and comes fully trained (at least to 95%) and quite young (usually under 4 years). Thereafter, if you're in a tough spot, you can usually find discount grinders that somebody will offer up. But it's expected (under normal circumstances) that you can purchase successive grinders at price. Your most basic grinder, you can purchase for as little as $1 on the market and will come untrained. These are very useful if you can train them up yourself. Figure on training this next grinder with about 5 years to spare on the grinder you're currently using. So, start training the next grinder when your current one is about 15 years. With further player skills in training learned, you can slimline that when your current grinder is 17 years or even 20 years old.

Fully trained grinders (the minimal I've already offered above), will run you usually about 30k minimally and for the best grinding lines, can skyrocket to a million and more. You'll want to aim to save up about 50k for each successive grinder (fully trained). Untrained grinder lines can run you from 25k to 30k apiece. Please note that grinder lines are slightly different from the $1 untrained horses that can grind after being trained.

If you haven't come across it yet, see the long-winded topic, All About The Grinder Horse for additional information.

***
Your AC arabian looks as average is. Nothing special, but finding the specials from the AC is more about what they eventually produce in successive generations and not so much about how they look right from the AC. The AC can have a large range of genetics for each breed. Sometimes the horse looks rather horrible on paper (HGP, conformation, etc.) but a couple generations down the road, you see the line has improved in leaps and bounds. Sometimes the opposite is true. So the AC is usually more about eyeing the horse's color, height and build, and then crossing your fingers and culling the foals that just don't have what you're aiming for.

Right now, AC arabians could be a hotter topic. Admin is running a new event (this'll be an ongoing one) for adding new breeds to the AC and one of those new breeds is the Akhal-Teke, which is made by using arabians and turkmenes. If your arabians can throw akhals with other peoples turkmenes and regularly do so, you could have a small and fairly consistent income from them for awhile. I'd suggest limiting the fees to 5k and under. Some of us would likely breed to him regularly for 10k, if he throws regularly, but these breeding projects (at least right now) are being tackled by players that have little oversight of their monies. Which generally means that although we'll favor higher producing stock (in this case, those that regularly produce Akhals), we'll likely pre-limit the stud fees to within certain price ranges. For an AC arabian that you're studding and not selling, you'll have more income coming, if you keep it 5k and under, rather than over 5k.

There is a little you can do to raise this, but trying to train and compete in hosted competitions (not local shows) is rather wasted on an AC horse and won't really prove whether the horse can compete well or not. They're simply outclassed even in level 1 hosted competitions.

For more information on the AC Breeding Project from admin, see it here: viewforum.php?f=32

***
Training a horse and competition records don't improve or destroy a horse's breeding ability. These are two separate things. Breeding stock will not give better foals after completing this and won't drop poorer foals if you don't do it. Just like in real life, some horses throw beautiful foals that work and move better than they do and others seem to flop with any foal they produce.

As for which is better, an already established bloodline or one from scratch... there are many schools of thought on this. What it comes down to, for this game at least, is to figure out what YOU want from the game and then work toward it. Such things as a log-pulling arabian line is just as viable as racing belgians (we actually have a very competitive racing belgian line, the log-pulling arabians are still in work, for some of the players).

So, it comes down to what you want. The arabian is used for a long number of other breeds on here. You may want to flesh-out exactly were you want to take your arabians. Many of the arabs on the market have genes that aren't in the original, real-life breed. The AC arabs are a much closer representative to that.

***
It is possible to play forever without upgrading. You will need a good grinder to drop you turns from local shows and a LOT of luck. It's not impossible, but you should know that even a top grinder may not give you enough random turn drops to play for much more than an hour until you'll need to wait for turns.

That said, it's not hard to earn random PT drops to upgrade and then it's not hard to earn those random PT drops in locals, to continue your upgrade as long as you play the game. Enough PT can be earned in one month (500 PT) to upgrade for the succeeding month. If you're careful about the way you handle it, you can use the first two months of gameplay (first as a basic, and second month as premium), to earn you a year and more of upgrade. You don't need to use any real money on this game. Upgrading offers you additional benefits, but wholly basic accounts can achieve the same success. I produced my very first RH horse (record holding) even before I upgraded for the very first time.

***
There isn't a way to increase your banked turns, unless you consider upgrading. Upgrading will double your banked turns and halve your wait time. And you can upgrade without real life monies.

***
If there's anything else, you know what to do.

[moneysucces]

firts of thank you for writing me a long detailed aswer

About the grinder part can I just randowm ask for a trained grinder on the forum one time its great but sounds to good to be true can you verify that?

about that ac arabian are you telling me if i put him up for stud at 4000 persons would breed to him? I mean that would be great source for me to start out would that be the same for a turmene? for that same akhe take reason?

Thank you for clearing up breeding stock does not improve by training basicaly ac horses are not worth training than? only if they would be a grinder.... and are than mostlly used for get better breeding lines? unless you hav a grinder that wins in level 10 shows lol without training ....

About my goals well would love to greate a champ line for undurance arabian since that is close to wwhat there ment for if im correct on the other hand if i do that a akhe thake line next to it would be probably great since there not that long in game? How long are they ingame? DO we know what akes are good in naturaly competition wise?

So they key to get less downtime and is acieveble is basically now I need to get a really good grinder first is it possibal for ac horses to be a good grinder? or could you maybe breed ac horse ac horse to get a good grinder? or is there to much luck involved?

And how did you greate a champ in youre first month of playing without premium I mean super intrested how you pulled that of that is if you want to share?

And yes I do have another question about how this could look like and what would be optimal?

I mean I would have one spot for the the grinder and than a cople of just breeding spots? and put those foals in freeze account until youre ready to use them or breed them?
than hava stud maybe to age and stud? or would you put him in freeze account?
some spots for aging old breeders? not sure how to do this and how to than use the freeze account on that note woould you level youre freeze account at all since you cant use turns?

Some help with how to use that breed grind and age out and how to use that freeze account optimal would be great

Also could you gee me toughts on this if this is a way to to it or where I can optimize?

Goals
1 Get a grinder
2 get to 500 points and than safe up for next grinder
3 have some breeders to breed age and keep for long time champ line
4 have one stalion that can stud
5 get training skills to 20% can I at that point have tham trained before 5 years not sure if I can
6 train maybe a ac horse or a g2 that is not good sell it trained 90% for NO IDEA WHAT PRICE

well ong post and a lot more questions thanks so much so far

[BlackOak2]

firts of thank you for writing me a long detailed aswer

About the grinder part can I just randowm ask for a trained grinder on the forum one time its great but sounds to good to be true can you verify that?

about that ac arabian are you telling me if i put him up for stud at 4000 persons would breed to him? I mean that would be great source for me to start out would that be the same for a turmene? for that same akhe take reason?

Thank you for clearing up breeding stock does not improve by training basicaly ac horses are not worth training than? only if they would be a grinder.... and are than mostlly used for get better breeding lines? unless you hav a grinder that wins in level 10 shows lol without training ....

About my goals well would love to greate a champ line for undurance arabian since that is close to wwhat there ment for if im correct on the other hand if i do that a akhe thake line next to it would be probably great since there not that long in game? How long are they ingame? DO we know what akes are good in naturaly competition wise?

So they key to get less downtime and is acieveble is basically now I need to get a really good grinder first is it possibal for ac horses to be a good grinder? or could you maybe breed ac horse ac horse to get a good grinder? or is there to much luck involved?

And how did you greate a champ in youre first month of playing without premium I mean super intrested how you pulled that of that is if you want to share?

And yes I do have another question about how this could look like and what would be optimal?

I mean I would have one spot for the the grinder and than a cople of just breeding spots? and put those foals in freeze account until youre ready to use them or breed them?
than hava stud maybe to age and stud? or would you put him in freeze account?
some spots for aging old breeders? not sure how to do this and how to than use the freeze account on that note woould you level youre freeze account at all since you cant use turns?

Some help with how to use that breed grind and age out and how to use that freeze account optimal would be great

Also could you gee me toughts on this if this is a way to to it or where I can optimize?

Goals
1 Get a grinder
2 get to 500 points and than safe up for next grinder
3 have some breeders to breed age and keep for long time champ line
4 have one stalion that can stud
5 get training skills to 20% can I at that point have tham trained before 5 years not sure if I can
6 train maybe a ac horse or a g2 that is not good sell it trained 90% for NO IDEA WHAT PRICE

well ong post and a lot more questions thanks so much so far

This is why we're here, to give you the advice you need to gain experience and understanding quicker.

Yes, you can randomly ask the community at large for a freebie grinder. Somebody, somewhere will have an extra that they'll willingly give to you. This is a newbie perk that our community offers to ensure that players can get running quickly. We only ask that you put for the little bit of effort to find one of those forums (we do have newbie-freebie-grinder forums that some players run) or that you request for one in your own post: Newbie looking for first grinder: Hi, I just started and I've heard I can get my first grinder for free, is there somebody out there willing to give me a hand?
Something to that effect should get you your first grinder for free ($1 pickup).
Also, sometimes those that have grinders already for sale on the market, will keep an eye on those that put up discount or single dollar bids. Not all of them do so, but some of them will let such a horse go to newbies for that bid price.

***
AC arab at stud. Yes, currently we have that program from admin and yes, if your horse regularly throws Akhals, you should get some public use from him, even at 4000. And yes, turks could also get the same use. Try to find a turk that Does Not have dun. For the Akhals, the dilution gene dun Does Not exist in Akhals, so it's better if the turk doesn't have dun right from the start. Even better if you can find some face and leg markings from the AC (i.e. stars and socks). It may not last forever, the program is moving right along at a fair pace, but for now, there is better chance that both of these AC horses will get used as Akhal-makers if they're standing publicly.

***
Correct, AC horses aren't really beneficial to be trained. Unless you want to do something with it and even then, they'll do rather nothing. AC horses are indeed, most often used for creating new lines. 'From Scratch' horses (horses bred from new AC stock) can be quite valuable for many projects. Finding the niche and getting your stock to that niche is the important and long-winded part. How you decide to play your game will dictate how and where and how fast you get to your goals.

If you were to find a grinder that pulls firsts in level 10 shows without training... you probably have an excellent breeder on your hands ... well... they do exist, in-game. Their HGP will likely be above or well above 60,000 with many greens and golds in their Breeding Report. None of these horses will be AC horses however. AC horses (up to this point) have come out with HGP's between 22,000 and 37,000. So, there is a fair distance between AC horses and those that can pull firsts in level 10 locals.

I would also recommend that you don't consider and use a horse as a grinder, if that horse has an HGP under 55,000. Although ANY horse can be used as a grinder, putting a minimal HGP requirement will help to ensure you have a horse that can regularly pull firsts in SOME local discipline. That All About The Grinder Horse link, has all the information and breaks it down so you can understand the basics in what to look for and how to utilize them to the best options.

***
Arabians in real life (and this game) are INDEED set up for endurance. In real life, they transition quite well and easily to racing, cross country and gymkhana. In the game, we don't have a discipline 'gymkhana' but we do have poles and barrels. In game, transitioning an arabian line into racing isn't too difficult. Sprint racing is a little bit more difficult. Poles is a little challenging, but again, not too difficult. Barrels will require you to play around with their body form to get it right, sit it'll take more generations of breeding and culling.

We do have endurance arabians already in-game, so you can also utilize those to help your project, if that's your desire.

Akhal's in real life are endurance and racers. And the cross between the two to make the Akhal, should theoretically create a good body form to excel into either discipline. I haven't actually tackled making the Akhal into either discipline, but it shouldn't be too difficult at all.

Okay, this statement of yours:

akhe thake line next to it would be probably great since there not that long in game?

isn't really correct. Since this version of HWO has been online, all of the breeds that you can see in the Breed Wiki, we can have. We just need to fulfill the recipe correctly to have the chance to get the new breed.
What's happening, is that when we fulfill the AC project that admin currently has, that these breeds will be officially put into the AC, so that we can adopt the breed directly from the AC and not have to rely on using the recipe to get that breed.

Akhals should also be fairly easy to tackle what I offered with arabians above. With fairly few generations, they should be able to compete in lower levels. I would not suggest that you enter a horse into hosted competitions (not local shows) until your line is at least in the HGP 50,000 and up area. That isn't to say that lower HGP horses CAN'T defeat other horses, but that it's relatively unlikely for a horse to be able to do much in hosted shows until your herd breaches over that 50k HGP area.

***
Yes, less downtime means a grinder that has a lot of random turn drops. Any horse can be a grinder, but good and great grinder lines appear to produce more horses that appear to earn more random drops.
There is something I need to offer here. Admin has told us that random turn and random PT drops are Purely Random and that breeding-for such things isn't written into the coding. What this means is that these good and great grinder lines and the higher-drop rates we seem to see from them, is purely in our heads.

Take it as you see it. Regardless of if it's coded or not, some horses and some horse lines appear to give us far greater drop rates than others. So, it could be purely luck and that's the way admin has offered it to us. Purely Luck for random drops.

***
Creating a champ and creating a Record Holder are two different things. I am much more of a breeder than a competitor. So I didn't actually 'create a champ' or 'create a record holder' in my first month. For the first year or more, I was just breeding and not taking part in the competitor side of the game at all.

Creating a champ is simply having the horse earn 200 pts in Any One Discipline in hosted shows. So when your horse earns 200 pts, being entered in... let's say Cross Country, then that horse is a Cross Country champion. But if the total of the pts in Cross Country, Show Jumping and Sprint Racing, all adds up to 200 pts... then your horse Will Not have a champion title. It matters that the pts are earned in a single discipline and not overall.

Even an AC horse can be champed to champion and be wholly untrained as well. It's difficult, but far from impossible. So on this game, we use WPS (win, place, show) percentages and actual scores to help determine if a horse is good or not.

Record Holders pull the best scores (or times) in hosted disciplines. If you have a horse that pulls a record, you have a Great Horse and... enter into the unofficial record holders club. It's not a difficult mountain to climb, but it does take time and just a little luck as well as breeding for certain things. For record holders, scores will be what you're aiming for, so regularly testing the foals in hosted competitions will become important as you breed for better stock.

As far as how I achieved my first record holder... well... it was a complete surprise. I was breeding for a new grinder line. The horse I had fully trained and was a good, solid grinder, I decided to enter him into a number of hosted competitions. The next day when I signed on, I had a little pop-up message that one of my horses had broken a record. That's how that happened. And often enough, that's how almost all of the record holders happen. You pop a foal, don't expect much from it, you know it'll be competitive in hosted shows, but don't see anything too special from it. The horse pulls good WPS in those hosted shows, then bam! all of a sudden, your rather good, but nothing-special horse has earned a record score.

Since that grinder horse earned a record, I kept that line as my personal grinder line and have honed it a bit further. That line produced another two record holders (different discipline) a number of generations later. But that line still serves me as good grinder stock. They aren't the best out there, by far, but they're solid.

***
I'm not sure I understand this next question:

And yes I do have another question about how this could look like and what would be optimal?

I think what you mean is 'what does a record holding horse look like?'
If that's the case, showing is better than explaining. I still have my third record holder alive and in board.

My second record holder Eternal Rain is descended from my first record holder, Dominic through multiple lines, so she's inbred back to him a couple times. When she pulled a record, I decided to find another record holder with a similar body form and chose ₰ℓ's Warlock Crown. This pairing gave me two horses of very similar looks:
Snow Babe

Cobalt Basilisk


The first is a solid competitor, the second is my third record holder. Not too much separates the two and yet one was just a little more able to pull scores that broke some records with the other fell just short. There is a little less than 1000 pts between their HGP.

So, to answer what I assumed to be your question: What does a record holder look like? Not really any different from any other horse. The record holders are overall, not even close to the highest HGP and other on-paper looks that some of these horses have. Many or most of our horses that earn records, tend to hover in the HGP area between 57k and 63k. And all of them have a rather run-of-the-mill look.

***
Yes, always try to keep one spot for a grinder. Freeze accounts are quite handy to keep horses in park until you're ready for them. They're also great for studding until you no longer need the stallion.
Yes, many of us use the primary account (the account that uses turns) to age-out any unnecessary horses, horses that are no longer usable for us. But don't forget, horses that have NO offspring, can be rehomed immediately. Make friends with the rehome feature. You don't want to keep too many horses that you're just going to age out, because you don't like the rehome button. All horses going to the rehome button [get deleted from the server] but are 'sold to good homes'.

You don't Need a freezer account, but they come in handy. What I can offer the best, is to start small and start slow, don't toss just any horse into a freezer, just to keep them around. Be hard on yourself for culling and the foals for culling. Once you get this down, you can ease up a little on yourself. You'll get the idea of what you want and what should do good for you.

Moving horses and monies between accounts is freely allowed on this game. PT is account-specific. You can't share PT, but you can send Newly Purchased PT to any account you want, you would do this on the PT purchasing screen (real money).

When moving horses, Always, Always use the private sale option (that's the box you'll click when putting a horse up for sale). Although most players understand accidentally selling horses to the wrong accounts, not everybody adheres to this and there have been some cases where the horse is NOT returned to the appropriate owner. Admin will not usually undo a sale, just because we made a mistake. Once a horse is sold, it belongs to the new owner.

To transfer monies between accounts, use the horse sale system. Sell a horse from one account to another account for whatever money you need to transfer.

As for leveling accounts (particularly freeze accounts), you can do this without the use of turns. I would suggest you upgrade the account's horse ownership skills first and foremost and ignore any of the other skills until you've maxed out horse ownership. An account can sit on level 1, indefinitely and still have all the skills learned up. You can even ignore the tutorial indefinitely.

***
I think I covered optimization of freeze accounts and grinders. So let me tackle breeding horses and account overview.

Breeding horses, in particular, AC stock and close-to-AC stock will regularly throw foals all over the place. Foals will pop much better than their parents and much worse as well as all over, in between. You should be careful about the foals that pop out and just look like they thrash their parents (are so, so, so much better). These foals tend to show the best that their parents could pass and although they sometimes make great grinders, they never or very, very rarely produce any foals that are better than them.
Your goal for breeding is to find and keep the foals that are just a little better than that same gender parent. So the fillies that are just a little better than their mothers and the colts that are just a little better than their fathers. But remember to cull your foals that don't meet your minimals. For instance, if you want all of your arabians to be at least 14 hands but no taller than 15 hands, then you'll need to wait until they turn 5 years (horses are full height when they hit their fifth birthday) and then rehome any horse that doesn't fit into that 14 to 15 hand requirement. Even if all of their other stats are great, if you don't take a hard hand and cull a bit ruthlessly, you could end up with a heard that has great stats, but are all either really tiny or way too tall. So... a little salt with your decisions will help you avoid rather ugly culling later on.

Now for account overview.
It's rather normal to lose horses on your farm. So, use the pastures and barns and label them well and accurately. Especially for horses that you put up for sale, but them in a barn or pasture and mark it Sale Barn. Other names that are highly useful are such things like 'Under 14 hands' or 'Foals under 1 year' and even 'Training'. As long as you adhere yourself to moving the horses into appropriate barns and pastures, you'll have a much smaller chance of not finding the horses you want.
Also, focus on purchasing pasture over barns. You won't need to bother with weight management for anything but your grinder. Keep your grinder in a small barn (I think we get one when we sign up?). By keeping your grinder at optimum weight and temperament, you'll maximize and optimize their ability to grind for you. So, you only need one barn with one stall spot for one grinder. All the rest can live in pastures.

***
I think your goals are rather straightforward.
Grinder should stay as your first priority.
500 PT (Pony Tokens) doesn't have to stay as your second priority, but upgrading does have benefits, as long as it remains a goal, it doesn't need to have an actual number on that priority list.
Your priority #3 (having breeders toward a champ line), keep in mind that this is a long-term goal. Just go slow with this one and you'll get there.
Standing stallions can offer income. But don't rely on their income to survive. Your grinder is your survivable income. Stallion fees are like icing on the cake. If you keep an eye on the admin AC project, you could benefit from AC horses as studs to the public.
20% in your training skills won't pull you under that 5 year line. That said, I don't have an exact cutoff for it. Focus on the training savers and stamina. These will affect the total length of time the most. When training a horse, up to 80% of that entire horse training will be taken by training that horse's stamina. All of the rest of the stats will take mere piddles after stamina. So learning the skills in training that are Saver and Stamina will impact the total training the most.
As far as selling trained horses... I would suggest trying your hand this way: Look for $1 sale stock on the market, find yourself a horse with HGP above 50,000 (there's usually plenty, plenty), purchase and try to train that horse. When you're at least 90% in all stats, with little exception, you should be able to send that horse to a new owner for at least 30k, any day of the week. It may take a day or two to sell, but marking it as a grinder should get it snapped up quicker.

***
I think I've exhausted myself a little.

[Moggymoomoo]

Ping

Hey! So yes I am definitely jumping in here sorry about that
I saw you are looking for grinders, unfortunately I don't have any of my own to give to you as I am getting back in the swing of training. I am looking for horses to practice on though so I can get used to training again (I was inactive for a coupe years ) and was wondering if you would like me to train one of your foals for you? It would be completely free as I am slow at training and you are new
In real time, honestly it could take me anywhere from a couple of days to a week or so. In game time, I can usually train in under 3 years if started from newborn. Here are a couple of horses I've trained so you can get an idea of my training experience

Smokin' Heartbeat


Round the Twist


Lucky Chance


New Beginnings


Anyways, if you're interested, lmk!
Thanks!

[moneysucces]

firts of thank you for writing me a long detailed aswer

About the grinder part can I just randowm ask for a trained grinder on the forum one time its great but sounds to good to be true can you verify that?

about that ac arabian are you telling me if i put him up for stud at 4000 persons would breed to him? I mean that would be great source for me to start out would that be the same for a turmene? for that same akhe take reason?

Thank you for clearing up breeding stock does not improve by training basicaly ac horses are not worth training than? only if they would be a grinder.... and are than mostlly used for get better breeding lines? unless you hav a grinder that wins in level 10 shows lol without training ....

About my goals well would love to greate a champ line for undurance arabian since that is close to wwhat there ment for if im correct on the other hand if i do that a akhe thake line next to it would be probably great since there not that long in game? How long are they ingame? DO we know what akes are good in naturaly competition wise?

So they key to get less downtime and is acieveble is basically now I need to get a really good grinder first is it possibal for ac horses to be a good grinder? or could you maybe breed ac horse ac horse to get a good grinder? or is there to much luck involved?

And how did you greate a champ in youre first month of playing without premium I mean super intrested how you pulled that of that is if you want to share?

And yes I do have another question about how this could look like and what would be optimal?

I mean I would have one spot for the the grinder and than a cople of just breeding spots? and put those foals in freeze account until youre ready to use them or breed them?
than hava stud maybe to age and stud? or would you put him in freeze account?
some spots for aging old breeders? not sure how to do this and how to than use the freeze account on that note woould you level youre freeze account at all since you cant use turns?

Some help with how to use that breed grind and age out and how to use that freeze account optimal would be great

Also could you gee me toughts on this if this is a way to to it or where I can optimize?

Goals
1 Get a grinder
2 get to 500 points and than safe up for next grinder
3 have some breeders to breed age and keep for long time champ line
4 have one stalion that can stud
5 get training skills to 20% can I at that point have tham trained before 5 years not sure if I can
6 train maybe a ac horse or a g2 that is not good sell it trained 90% for NO IDEA WHAT PRICE

well ong post and a lot more questions thanks so much so far

This is why we're here, to give you the advice you need to gain experience and understanding quicker.

Yes, you can randomly ask the community at large for a freebie grinder. Somebody, somewhere will have an extra that they'll willingly give to you. This is a newbie perk that our community offers to ensure that players can get running quickly. We only ask that you put for the little bit of effort to find one of those forums (we do have newbie-freebie-grinder forums that some players run) or that you request for one in your own post: Newbie looking for first grinder: Hi, I just started and I've heard I can get my first grinder for free, is there somebody out there willing to give me a hand?
Something to that effect should get you your first grinder for free ($1 pickup).
Also, sometimes those that have grinders already for sale on the market, will keep an eye on those that put up discount or single dollar bids. Not all of them do so, but some of them will let such a horse go to newbies for that bid price.

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AC arab at stud. Yes, currently we have that program from admin and yes, if your horse regularly throws Akhals, you should get some public use from him, even at 4000. And yes, turks could also get the same use. Try to find a turk that Does Not have dun. For the Akhals, the dilution gene dun Does Not exist in Akhals, so it's better if the turk doesn't have dun right from the start. Even better if you can find some face and leg markings from the AC (i.e. stars and socks). It may not last forever, the program is moving right along at a fair pace, but for now, there is better chance that both of these AC horses will get used as Akhal-makers if they're standing publicly.

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Correct, AC horses aren't really beneficial to be trained. Unless you want to do something with it and even then, they'll do rather nothing. AC horses are indeed, most often used for creating new lines. 'From Scratch' horses (horses bred from new AC stock) can be quite valuable for many projects. Finding the niche and getting your stock to that niche is the important and long-winded part. How you decide to play your game will dictate how and where and how fast you get to your goals.

If you were to find a grinder that pulls firsts in level 10 shows without training... you probably have an excellent breeder on your hands ... well... they do exist, in-game. Their HGP will likely be above or well above 60,000 with many greens and golds in their Breeding Report. None of these horses will be AC horses however. AC horses (up to this point) have come out with HGP's between 22,000 and 37,000. So, there is a fair distance between AC horses and those that can pull firsts in level 10 locals.

I would also recommend that you don't consider and use a horse as a grinder, if that horse has an HGP under 55,000. Although ANY horse can be used as a grinder, putting a minimal HGP requirement will help to ensure you have a horse that can regularly pull firsts in SOME local discipline. That All About The Grinder Horse link, has all the information and breaks it down so you can understand the basics in what to look for and how to utilize them to the best options.

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Arabians in real life (and this game) are INDEED set up for endurance. In real life, they transition quite well and easily to racing, cross country and gymkhana. In the game, we don't have a discipline 'gymkhana' but we do have poles and barrels. In game, transitioning an arabian line into racing isn't too difficult. Sprint racing is a little bit more difficult. Poles is a little challenging, but again, not too difficult. Barrels will require you to play around with their body form to get it right, sit it'll take more generations of breeding and culling.

We do have endurance arabians already in-game, so you can also utilize those to help your project, if that's your desire.

Akhal's in real life are endurance and racers. And the cross between the two to make the Akhal, should theoretically create a good body form to excel into either discipline. I haven't actually tackled making the Akhal into either discipline, but it shouldn't be too difficult at all.

Okay, this statement of yours:

akhe thake line next to it would be probably great since there not that long in game?

isn't really correct. Since this version of HWO has been online, all of the breeds that you can see in the Breed Wiki, we can have. We just need to fulfill the recipe correctly to have the chance to get the new breed.
What's happening, is that when we fulfill the AC project that admin currently has, that these breeds will be officially put into the AC, so that we can adopt the breed directly from the AC and not have to rely on using the recipe to get that breed.

Akhals should also be fairly easy to tackle what I offered with arabians above. With fairly few generations, they should be able to compete in lower levels. I would not suggest that you enter a horse into hosted competitions (not local shows) until your line is at least in the HGP 50,000 and up area. That isn't to say that lower HGP horses CAN'T defeat other horses, but that it's relatively unlikely for a horse to be able to do much in hosted shows until your herd breaches over that 50k HGP area.

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Yes, less downtime means a grinder that has a lot of random turn drops. Any horse can be a grinder, but good and great grinder lines appear to produce more horses that appear to earn more random drops.
There is something I need to offer here. Admin has told us that random turn and random PT drops are Purely Random and that breeding-for such things isn't written into the coding. What this means is that these good and great grinder lines and the higher-drop rates we seem to see from them, is purely in our heads.

Take it as you see it. Regardless of if it's coded or not, some horses and some horse lines appear to give us far greater drop rates than others. So, it could be purely luck and that's the way admin has offered it to us. Purely Luck for random drops.

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Creating a champ and creating a Record Holder are two different things. I am much more of a breeder than a competitor. So I didn't actually 'create a champ' or 'create a record holder' in my first month. For the first year or more, I was just breeding and not taking part in the competitor side of the game at all.

Creating a champ is simply having the horse earn 200 pts in Any One Discipline in hosted shows. So when your horse earns 200 pts, being entered in... let's say Cross Country, then that horse is a Cross Country champion. But if the total of the pts in Cross Country, Show Jumping and Sprint Racing, all adds up to 200 pts... then your horse Will Not have a champion title. It matters that the pts are earned in a single discipline and not overall.

Even an AC horse can be champed to champion and be wholly untrained as well. It's difficult, but far from impossible. So on this game, we use WPS (win, place, show) percentages and actual scores to help determine if a horse is good or not.

Record Holders pull the best scores (or times) in hosted disciplines. If you have a horse that pulls a record, you have a Great Horse and... enter into the unofficial record holders club. It's not a difficult mountain to climb, but it does take time and just a little luck as well as breeding for certain things. For record holders, scores will be what you're aiming for, so regularly testing the foals in hosted competitions will become important as you breed for better stock.

As far as how I achieved my first record holder... well... it was a complete surprise. I was breeding for a new grinder line. The horse I had fully trained and was a good, solid grinder, I decided to enter him into a number of hosted competitions. The next day when I signed on, I had a little pop-up message that one of my horses had broken a record. That's how that happened. And often enough, that's how almost all of the record holders happen. You pop a foal, don't expect much from it, you know it'll be competitive in hosted shows, but don't see anything too special from it. The horse pulls good WPS in those hosted shows, then bam! all of a sudden, your rather good, but nothing-special horse has earned a record score.

Since that grinder horse earned a record, I kept that line as my personal grinder line and have honed it a bit further. That line produced another two record holders (different discipline) a number of generations later. But that line still serves me as good grinder stock. They aren't the best out there, by far, but they're solid.

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I'm not sure I understand this next question:

And yes I do have another question about how this could look like and what would be optimal?

I think what you mean is 'what does a record holding horse look like?'
If that's the case, showing is better than explaining. I still have my third record holder alive and in board.

My second record holder Eternal Rain is descended from my first record holder, Dominic through multiple lines, so she's inbred back to him a couple times. When she pulled a record, I decided to find another record holder with a similar body form and chose ₰ℓ's Warlock Crown. This pairing gave me two horses of very similar looks:
Snow Babe

Cobalt Basilisk


The first is a solid competitor, the second is my third record holder. Not too much separates the two and yet one was just a little more able to pull scores that broke some records with the other fell just short. There is a little less than 1000 pts between their HGP.

So, to answer what I assumed to be your question: What does a record holder look like? Not really any different from any other horse. The record holders are overall, not even close to the highest HGP and other on-paper looks that some of these horses have. Many or most of our horses that earn records, tend to hover in the HGP area between 57k and 63k. And all of them have a rather run-of-the-mill look.

***
Yes, always try to keep one spot for a grinder. Freeze accounts are quite handy to keep horses in park until you're ready for them. They're also great for studding until you no longer need the stallion.
Yes, many of us use the primary account (the account that uses turns) to age-out any unnecessary horses, horses that are no longer usable for us. But don't forget, horses that have NO offspring, can be rehomed immediately. Make friends with the rehome feature. You don't want to keep too many horses that you're just going to age out, because you don't like the rehome button. All horses going to the rehome button [get deleted from the server] but are 'sold to good homes'.

You don't Need a freezer account, but they come in handy. What I can offer the best, is to start small and start slow, don't toss just any horse into a freezer, just to keep them around. Be hard on yourself for culling and the foals for culling. Once you get this down, you can ease up a little on yourself. You'll get the idea of what you want and what should do good for you.

Moving horses and monies between accounts is freely allowed on this game. PT is account-specific. You can't share PT, but you can send Newly Purchased PT to any account you want, you would do this on the PT purchasing screen (real money).

When moving horses, Always, Always use the private sale option (that's the box you'll click when putting a horse up for sale). Although most players understand accidentally selling horses to the wrong accounts, not everybody adheres to this and there have been some cases where the horse is NOT returned to the appropriate owner. Admin will not usually undo a sale, just because we made a mistake. Once a horse is sold, it belongs to the new owner.

To transfer monies between accounts, use the horse sale system. Sell a horse from one account to another account for whatever money you need to transfer.

As for leveling accounts (particularly freeze accounts), you can do this without the use of turns. I would suggest you upgrade the account's horse ownership skills first and foremost and ignore any of the other skills until you've maxed out horse ownership. An account can sit on level 1, indefinitely and still have all the skills learned up. You can even ignore the tutorial indefinitely.

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I think I covered optimization of freeze accounts and grinders. So let me tackle breeding horses and account overview.

Breeding horses, in particular, AC stock and close-to-AC stock will regularly throw foals all over the place. Foals will pop much better than their parents and much worse as well as all over, in between. You should be careful about the foals that pop out and just look like they thrash their parents (are so, so, so much better). These foals tend to show the best that their parents could pass and although they sometimes make great grinders, they never or very, very rarely produce any foals that are better than them.
Your goal for breeding is to find and keep the foals that are just a little better than that same gender parent. So the fillies that are just a little better than their mothers and the colts that are just a little better than their fathers. But remember to cull your foals that don't meet your minimals. For instance, if you want all of your arabians to be at least 14 hands but no taller than 15 hands, then you'll need to wait until they turn 5 years (horses are full height when they hit their fifth birthday) and then rehome any horse that doesn't fit into that 14 to 15 hand requirement. Even if all of their other stats are great, if you don't take a hard hand and cull a bit ruthlessly, you could end up with a heard that has great stats, but are all either really tiny or way too tall. So... a little salt with your decisions will help you avoid rather ugly culling later on.

Now for account overview.
It's rather normal to lose horses on your farm. So, use the pastures and barns and label them well and accurately. Especially for horses that you put up for sale, but them in a barn or pasture and mark it Sale Barn. Other names that are highly useful are such things like 'Under 14 hands' or 'Foals under 1 year' and even 'Training'. As long as you adhere yourself to moving the horses into appropriate barns and pastures, you'll have a much smaller chance of not finding the horses you want.
Also, focus on purchasing pasture over barns. You won't need to bother with weight management for anything but your grinder. Keep your grinder in a small barn (I think we get one when we sign up?). By keeping your grinder at optimum weight and temperament, you'll maximize and optimize their ability to grind for you. So, you only need one barn with one stall spot for one grinder. All the rest can live in pastures.

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I think your goals are rather straightforward.
Grinder should stay as your first priority.
500 PT (Pony Tokens) doesn't have to stay as your second priority, but upgrading does have benefits, as long as it remains a goal, it doesn't need to have an actual number on that priority list.
Your priority #3 (having breeders toward a champ line), keep in mind that this is a long-term goal. Just go slow with this one and you'll get there.
Standing stallions can offer income. But don't rely on their income to survive. Your grinder is your survivable income. Stallion fees are like icing on the cake. If you keep an eye on the admin AC project, you could benefit from AC horses as studs to the public.
20% in your training skills won't pull you under that 5 year line. That said, I don't have an exact cutoff for it. Focus on the training savers and stamina. These will affect the total length of time the most. When training a horse, up to 80% of that entire horse training will be taken by training that horse's stamina. All of the rest of the stats will take mere piddles after stamina. So learning the skills in training that are Saver and Stamina will impact the total training the most.
As far as selling trained horses... I would suggest trying your hand this way: Look for $1 sale stock on the market, find yourself a horse with HGP above 50,000 (there's usually plenty, plenty), purchase and try to train that horse. When you're at least 90% in all stats, with little exception, you should be able to send that horse to a new owner for at least 30k, any day of the week. It may take a day or two to sell, but marking it as a grinder should get it snapped up quicker.

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I think I've exhausted myself a little.

well this is a super helpfull answer THank you so much!! if i can ever do someting for you how big or small let me know

[BlackOak2]

[moneysucces]

Does inbreeding effect lines I mean i do see a lot of inbred horses is there value in clean lines? LSO I THEY EFFECT LINES NEGATIVLY HOW?

[BlackOak2]

Does inbreeding effect lines I mean i do see a lot of inbred horses is there value in clean lines? LSO I THEY EFFECT LINES NEGATIVLY HOW?

Currently, no, COI does NOT effect lines negatively. That said, if you use COI, you can artificially and quickly inflate your bloodline growth. But it can hurt too, so just be sure that when you inbreed, you do so by keeping a good eye on exactly the genes you want in.
However, if you breed to the point that you start making... essentially carbon copies (horses that are more alike and resemble identical twins), you can accidentally breed out all of the genes that help to push your horses higher in HGP. You plateau your herd and make it really difficult to climb... but at the same time, your herd doesn't really fall either.

So, COI can be useful but it can also be hurtful. I have a number of linked topics in my quicklinks that walk you through using, abusing and eliminating COI for different uses.

Inbreed doesn't necessarily decrease the value of the horses. This won't really be a thing until COI actually has an impact on our lines. However, having low and no COI herds WILL increase the horse's value. But it is quite difficult to maintain, especially if you're breeding solely or almost solely with your own lines. Low and no COI herds is still a small niche market. It's beginning to grow, especially with the new admin breeding project and will continue to inch up there as we get closer to the day that COI does affect our horses.

We do not yet know HOW it'll affect them though.