Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
I think it has been mentioned before, but the current method of calculating COI is not accurate and COI, by pedigree, is generally only calculated to five generations.
However, I was wondering of the possibility that we introduce a genetic COI into the game.
COI by pedigree is not particularly accurate (e.g. if I recall correctly, the average pedigree COI of a pug is something like 5% but the average genetic COI is something like 40%!) Thus it might be fun to have normal accounts have a purely pedigree COI and but premium accounts also get the genetic COI - similar, perhaps, to how we have breeder's reports and conformation.
On entering competitions:
The way we currently have to enter competitions is very arduous and I would like to suggest this as a method to streamline the process (I think I have mentioned this in another post but here I shall include pictures to better illustrate my point):
This allows you to select all competitions with the click of one button or else select multiple competitions for your horse to enter at the same time. You simply have to click on the white box and click 'enter my horse'. Clicking 'Select All' causes every 'select to enter competition' box to be checked.
If if you click 'Select a Horse to Enter' then it brings up a page like this:
And you can then select the boxes of the horses you want to enter and then click 'Enter these horses'. If you select multiple horses to enter into a competition you can only enter one horse in, then perhaps it should simply enter the horse highest on the list.
This would make entering horses into competitions much less arduous, compared to the current way of entering (which involves so much clicking it's pretty much an accessibility issue. My joints are too sore for this.)
I was thinking of these being more as extra things, to be added much later in the game as a more frivolous thing.
I think we have discussed before, and vetoed, tack adding bonuses to horses in competition. However, I think if it were added in the following manner, it might actually be quite enjoyable, without giving paying players much of an advantage.
So, the thought:
It introduces the concept of fitting tack and different tack fits different horses. You have to assign the horse its tack per competition. Note! Assigning tack to a horse should not be the same as having the horse wear the tack. I think that you should not have to own the particular tack to assign it to a horse however, the horse will not be able to use the tack in a competition if said tack is not in your inventory.
You are also able to braid/trim/shave the horses mane and tail for competition or have have it braided/plaited/cut permanently. And you can assign a style for each discipline.
Possibilities for tack fitting:
For saddles, they have fits such as Fit 1, Fit 2, Fit 3 etc. For blankets, bridles and bits, they have fits like pony (under 11hh), cob (11-14hh), full (14-18hh) and draught (18-24hh). These fits only cost in-game money, not PT.
Saddle fits are based on a mixture of height, type, weight and fitness. For example, a very light, horse type, thin, no training under 11hh might need a Fit 1. A very heavy, pony type, light training, average weight 14hh might need a Fit 4. A light, horse type, no training, fat 16hh might need a Fit 4. A light, horse type, 21hh, fully trained, average weight might need a Fit 6 and so on.
Then, you should also get the 'Fit All', which will fit any and every horse (like the current in game tack does.) Fit All's should always cost PT.
(I know this blanket and bit fitting isn't true to real life but I figured it would be easier to have these broad fittings based on height - a compromise between realism, easier coding and fun gameplay.)
For competitions where you can enter several horses at the same time, like dressage, you should only need one saddle, even if the same type of saddle is assigned to both - because you can 'swap' the saddles between horses.
However, when we have the ability to hire jockeys so that we can have two or more of our horses entered in competitions like racing, you should need a saddle and bridle for each horse.
At lower levels, you can enter your horse with the incorrect tack, albeit with a penalty. At higher levels, you cannot enter at all unless you have the correct tack available.
For example, in a level 1 dressage test, you could enter your horse in a western bridle and racing saddle. At a level three competition, you need any English bridle and saddle. At a level 8 competition, you need to have a double bridle and dressage saddle.
If a horse does not have any tack available to wear, they take a small penalty in a level 1-3 competition and cannot enter a competition higher than that.
If a horse enters with an incorrect fit, the horse receives penalties and, possibly injuries, depending on how bad the fit it. A badly fitted saddle might cause the horse to get a back injury whereas a badly fitted bit might just cause a score penalty.
A possibility: if a horse receives has an injury and then receives another injury in the same place while it still has the other injury, this might become a permanent injury. For example, a badly fitted saddle causes the horse to have an injured back. The horse is then entered in another 30 competitions with the badly fitted saddle, each competition causes another injury on top of the old one. This back injury now becomes a permanent injury, leading to a permanent competition penalty.
On braids: you can assign a braid per competition or even overall type of competition and this can have an effect on your score.
For example, in hunter, you are meant to braid your horses mane and tail and you can only use a running braid in the mane if the horse is of a particular breed. See below for examples.
Potentially, a new account could be given one free Fit All of each tack type, so that they can participate in competitions without a penalty from the very start.
In order to use a double bridle, you must have a pelham and a snaffle bit in your inventory.
If you do not have the assigned tack in your inventory - or if you have not assigned tack to a horse - a notification in the middle of the screen should appear to warn you of this when you try to enter a competition. However (and this is important), we should be able to switch off all notifications for incorrect tack. (Like, seriously, please do not implement a notification without the ability to switch them off.)
For example (we are pretending in this scenario that we have the ability to hire jockeys see here for my suggestions on how to implement jockeys):
Let's say that I have ChestnutHorse (16.3hh), BlackHorse (16.3hh) and BayHorse (10hh).
Let's say that the tack shop has:
Now, let's say that the profile of a horse looks like this:
I click on Find Upcoming Competitions and enter my horse into a harness race. I get the notification 'horse is not assigned tack!' (VERY important that I am able to switch these notifications off if I want to.)
So I go back to the horse's profile and I I click on Assign Competition Tack button:
As you can see, I don't know what fit the horses saddle or bit should be.
Let's say I exit Assign Button and click on 'Fit Tack' (or else have selected 'Call the saddle fitter).
And now I click on Assign Button Again:
You can see now that I have also clicked on a button to select tack individually for each competition type for racing. For English, Western and Driving, what I select will apply for all competitions. For Racing, I can now select individually.
The option for 'Call the saddle fitter' might be in Player -> Profile.
And now I assign the following tack:
As you can see, it now tells me my recommended saddle and bit fit.
I click on Find Upcoming Competitions and enter my horse into a level 1 harness race. I receive the notification:
In change wearables, I try to put the Blanket Small on, but cannot, because the horse needs a Medium. I try to put the Blanket Medium on. It works and the horse is now wearing a blanket. In Change Wearables, I put the Harness Fit All on.
I try to enter the competition again and, once again, receive the notification:
I go to Assign Competition Tack and change the Harness Racing 'saddle' to Harness Fit 4.
Because I have a Harness Fit All, I am now able to enter the harness racing competition. Because the horse has been assigned to have it's mane braided, each harness race competition uses up a certain number of hair bands (maybe 7-14? depending on the size of the horse/mane thickness?) A tail uses up 1 Band.
Because it is a harness race competition, the hair band colour does not matter. If it were a hunter competition, for example, my horse would receive a very, very minor penalty because the hair band colour does not match its mane and tail. The Needle and Thread will work for any horse of any colour.
Let's say I try now to enter this horse into a level 3 dressage competition. The horse receives a severe penalty for the incorrect saddle and a moderate penalty for the incorrect bit. I change the saddle and bit to the correct one and now the horse receives no penalty.
But let's say I try to enter into a level 10 competition. I cannot enter it because it needs to have a dressage saddle and a double bridle for level 8 and above.
(Now, the following goes off the assumption that we can hire jockeys. This will not apply if we do not have jockeys - I am including it because I remember it being listed as a planned feature.)
Now, in my inventory I have:
Let's say I go and assign tack to BlackHorse and BayHorse. BayHorse is assigned English Saddle Fit 3 and BlackHorse is assigned English Saddle Fit 4. ChestnutHorse, as already stated, is assigned English Saddle Fit 4. All are assigned Simple English Bridle Full, Mullen Mouth D Ring Full and Saddle Pad Full.
Let's say that I enter all three into a dressage competition. Despite only having one bridle, bit and saddle pad, there is no problem, since the tack is simply 'swapped' between each horse.
But now, let's say that I enter two of them into a Saddleseat competition. There is a problem, as there is only one bridle between two of them.
Let's say that I now go and get two more bridles, saddle pads and bits and try to enter both of them again.
There is now no problem - there is enough tack for both of them (for the saddles, one would wear the Fit All and the other the Fit 4.)
However, let's say I try to enter all three into the Saddleseat competition now. There is now a problem - while there are enough bridles, pads and bits, there is only one Fit 4 saddle and one Fit All. Thus, the third horse does not have a saddle.
If I went and got another Fit 3, Fit 4 or Fit All saddle, I would be able to enter all 3 into the same Saddleseat competition, as there are now enough saddles of the assigned type for each horse.
That is the conclusion of my thoughts and suggestion. I hope I have managed to fit everything coherently together!
However, I was wondering of the possibility that we introduce a genetic COI into the game.
COI by pedigree is not particularly accurate (e.g. if I recall correctly, the average pedigree COI of a pug is something like 5% but the average genetic COI is something like 40%!) Thus it might be fun to have normal accounts have a purely pedigree COI and but premium accounts also get the genetic COI - similar, perhaps, to how we have breeder's reports and conformation.
On entering competitions:
The way we currently have to enter competitions is very arduous and I would like to suggest this as a method to streamline the process (I think I have mentioned this in another post but here I shall include pictures to better illustrate my point):
This allows you to select all competitions with the click of one button or else select multiple competitions for your horse to enter at the same time. You simply have to click on the white box and click 'enter my horse'. Clicking 'Select All' causes every 'select to enter competition' box to be checked.
If if you click 'Select a Horse to Enter' then it brings up a page like this:
And you can then select the boxes of the horses you want to enter and then click 'Enter these horses'. If you select multiple horses to enter into a competition you can only enter one horse in, then perhaps it should simply enter the horse highest on the list.
This would make entering horses into competitions much less arduous, compared to the current way of entering (which involves so much clicking it's pretty much an accessibility issue. My joints are too sore for this.)
I was thinking of these being more as extra things, to be added much later in the game as a more frivolous thing.
I think we have discussed before, and vetoed, tack adding bonuses to horses in competition. However, I think if it were added in the following manner, it might actually be quite enjoyable, without giving paying players much of an advantage.
So, the thought:
It introduces the concept of fitting tack and different tack fits different horses. You have to assign the horse its tack per competition. Note! Assigning tack to a horse should not be the same as having the horse wear the tack. I think that you should not have to own the particular tack to assign it to a horse however, the horse will not be able to use the tack in a competition if said tack is not in your inventory.
You are also able to braid/trim/shave the horses mane and tail for competition or have have it braided/plaited/cut permanently. And you can assign a style for each discipline.
Possibilities for tack fitting:
- With a normal account, you have to manually check what tack would fit your horse. This could perhaps take time from the day (maybe 5 minutes?) The fit of a bridle, bit or blanket can change as the horse grows. The fit of a saddle changes as the horse grows and can also change with fitness. You have to manually assign tack to the horse.
With a premium account, you can 'call the saddle fitter', will assign tack to your horse that fits, with the option to fit every horse all at once (i.e. you only have to click ONE button to fit EVERY SINGLE horse.) Or perhaps all horses are automatically fitted, without having to click any buttons.
For saddles, they have fits such as Fit 1, Fit 2, Fit 3 etc. For blankets, bridles and bits, they have fits like pony (under 11hh), cob (11-14hh), full (14-18hh) and draught (18-24hh). These fits only cost in-game money, not PT.
Saddle fits are based on a mixture of height, type, weight and fitness. For example, a very light, horse type, thin, no training under 11hh might need a Fit 1. A very heavy, pony type, light training, average weight 14hh might need a Fit 4. A light, horse type, no training, fat 16hh might need a Fit 4. A light, horse type, 21hh, fully trained, average weight might need a Fit 6 and so on.
Then, you should also get the 'Fit All', which will fit any and every horse (like the current in game tack does.) Fit All's should always cost PT.
(I know this blanket and bit fitting isn't true to real life but I figured it would be easier to have these broad fittings based on height - a compromise between realism, easier coding and fun gameplay.)
For competitions where you can enter several horses at the same time, like dressage, you should only need one saddle, even if the same type of saddle is assigned to both - because you can 'swap' the saddles between horses.
However, when we have the ability to hire jockeys so that we can have two or more of our horses entered in competitions like racing, you should need a saddle and bridle for each horse.
At lower levels, you can enter your horse with the incorrect tack, albeit with a penalty. At higher levels, you cannot enter at all unless you have the correct tack available.
For example, in a level 1 dressage test, you could enter your horse in a western bridle and racing saddle. At a level three competition, you need any English bridle and saddle. At a level 8 competition, you need to have a double bridle and dressage saddle.
If a horse does not have any tack available to wear, they take a small penalty in a level 1-3 competition and cannot enter a competition higher than that.
If a horse enters with an incorrect fit, the horse receives penalties and, possibly injuries, depending on how bad the fit it. A badly fitted saddle might cause the horse to get a back injury whereas a badly fitted bit might just cause a score penalty.
A possibility: if a horse receives has an injury and then receives another injury in the same place while it still has the other injury, this might become a permanent injury. For example, a badly fitted saddle causes the horse to have an injured back. The horse is then entered in another 30 competitions with the badly fitted saddle, each competition causes another injury on top of the old one. This back injury now becomes a permanent injury, leading to a permanent competition penalty.
On braids: you can assign a braid per competition or even overall type of competition and this can have an effect on your score.
For example, in hunter, you are meant to braid your horses mane and tail and you can only use a running braid in the mane if the horse is of a particular breed. See below for examples.
Potentially, a new account could be given one free Fit All of each tack type, so that they can participate in competitions without a penalty from the very start.
In order to use a double bridle, you must have a pelham and a snaffle bit in your inventory.
If you do not have the assigned tack in your inventory - or if you have not assigned tack to a horse - a notification in the middle of the screen should appear to warn you of this when you try to enter a competition. However (and this is important), we should be able to switch off all notifications for incorrect tack. (Like, seriously, please do not implement a notification without the ability to switch them off.)
For example (we are pretending in this scenario that we have the ability to hire jockeys see here for my suggestions on how to implement jockeys):
Let's say that I have ChestnutHorse (16.3hh), BlackHorse (16.3hh) and BayHorse (10hh).
Let's say that the tack shop has:
-
Blanket Small $150
Blanket Medium $230
Blanket Large $300
Blanket All 57PT
200 Black Hair Bands $10
200 Brown Hair Bands $10
Plaiting Needle and Thread (200 uses) 2PT
English Saddle Fit 1 $1724
English Saddle Fit 4 $1724
English Saddle Fit All 67PT
Racing Saddle Fit 1 $1689
Racing Saddle Fit 4 $1742
Racing Saddle Fit All 67PT
Western Saddle Fit 1 $1742
Western Saddle Fit 4 $1742
Western Saddle Fit All 67PT
Harness Fit 1 $1724
Harness Fit 4 $1724
Harness Fit All 67PT
Saddle Pad Pony $266
Saddle Pad Cob $266
Saddle Pad Full $266
Saddle Pad Draught $266
Saddle Pad All 57PT
English Plain Bridle Pony $400
English Plain Bridle Cob $450
English Plain Bridle Full $500
English Plain Bridle Draught $550
English Plain Bridle All 60PT
English Double Bridle Pony $400
English Double Bridle Cob $450
English Double Bridle Full $500
English Double Bridle Draught $550
English Double Bridle All 60PT
Western Bridle Pony $400
Western Bridle Cob $450
Western Bridle Full $500
Western Bridle Draught $550
Western Bridle All 60PT
Double Joint D Ring Pony
Double Joint D Ring Cob
Double Joint D Ring Full
Double Joint D Ring Draught
Double Joint D Ring All
Mullen Mouth D Ring Pony
Mullen Mouth D Ring Cob
Mullen Mouth D Ring Full
Mullen Mouth D Ring Draught
Mullen Mouth D Ring All
Pelham Pony
Pelham Cob
Pelham Full
Pelham Draught
Pelham All
Now, let's say that the profile of a horse looks like this:
I click on Find Upcoming Competitions and enter my horse into a harness race. I get the notification 'horse is not assigned tack!' (VERY important that I am able to switch these notifications off if I want to.)
So I go back to the horse's profile and I I click on Assign Competition Tack button:
As you can see, I don't know what fit the horses saddle or bit should be.
Let's say I exit Assign Button and click on 'Fit Tack' (or else have selected 'Call the saddle fitter).
And now I click on Assign Button Again:
You can see now that I have also clicked on a button to select tack individually for each competition type for racing. For English, Western and Driving, what I select will apply for all competitions. For Racing, I can now select individually.
The option for 'Call the saddle fitter' might be in Player -> Profile.
And now I assign the following tack:
As you can see, it now tells me my recommended saddle and bit fit.
- My selected saddle for English is incorrect. The bit is also incorrect. Thus, this horse will receive severe competition penalties for the saddle fit and bit fit because they are both very far from the recommended fit, and will receive a minor penalty for the bit having the incorrect mouthpiece. (penalties from the bit should be based on mouthpiece and size - e.g. a full double joint d ring should have the same effect as a full double joint french gag.)
For driving, I have selected the correct 'saddle' (a harness) but my bridle and bit is too small. The horse will receive penalties for this. The horse receives no penalties for not having a saddlepad because the saddlepad is unnecessary.
For the western, you can see the saddle is correct (so no penalties), the bridle is too big - however, since it is closer in size to full than a pony size is, the horse does not receive as large a penalty as it would get for having a pony bridle. (I also think that bridles and bits that are too big should have less of a penalty than too small.) The bit is correct so no penalty.
For endurance, you can see that I have selected a western saddle of the correct fit. The horse will get penalties for the incorrect type and will not be able to enter competitions higher than level 3. No bridle penalties. The horse may or may not have a penalty for no bit - i think this should perhaps depend on the type of bridle and competition (e.g. dressage you cannot enter bitless, you can ride bitless with a Micklem bridle but not with a normal bridle, etc.)
You can see the mane is listed as 'long'. This will perhaps mean that, if the mane is not the length of the longest you can get in game, it gets 'extensions' added to it. Same for the tail. For ones where the tail has been listed as medium - if the horse has a genetically long mane and tail, then it is 'cut' to a medium length. If it is medium length, it is left natural. If it is short, it gets extensions. And similarly for short.
Steeple will get penalties for saddle type but no other penalties (except perhaps for the lack of bit.)
In harness, the horse will not be able to enter, because it doesn't have a harness and it will receive a bridle size penalty.
Sprint racing might receive penalties for the bridle type.
Racing receives no penalties at all as the tack is all of the right type and fit and the state of the mane and tail do not matter.
I click on Find Upcoming Competitions and enter my horse into a level 1 harness race. I receive the notification:
incorrect tack assigned; no tack in inventory; cannot enter competition
No hair elastics or thread; cannot braid mane or tail
I go to the store and buy the Harness Fit All, English Saddle Fit 1, English Saddle Fit 4, the Simple English Bridle Full, a Saddle Pad Full, a Mullen Mouth D Ring Full, Black Hair Bands, Blanket Small and Blanket Medium.In change wearables, I try to put the Blanket Small on, but cannot, because the horse needs a Medium. I try to put the Blanket Medium on. It works and the horse is now wearing a blanket. In Change Wearables, I put the Harness Fit All on.
I try to enter the competition again and, once again, receive the notification:
incorrect tack assigned; cannot enter competition
This is because the *wearable* might be the harness, but the assigned tack is still the saddle.I go to Assign Competition Tack and change the Harness Racing 'saddle' to Harness Fit 4.
Because I have a Harness Fit All, I am now able to enter the harness racing competition. Because the horse has been assigned to have it's mane braided, each harness race competition uses up a certain number of hair bands (maybe 7-14? depending on the size of the horse/mane thickness?) A tail uses up 1 Band.
Because it is a harness race competition, the hair band colour does not matter. If it were a hunter competition, for example, my horse would receive a very, very minor penalty because the hair band colour does not match its mane and tail. The Needle and Thread will work for any horse of any colour.
Let's say I try now to enter this horse into a level 3 dressage competition. The horse receives a severe penalty for the incorrect saddle and a moderate penalty for the incorrect bit. I change the saddle and bit to the correct one and now the horse receives no penalty.
But let's say I try to enter into a level 10 competition. I cannot enter it because it needs to have a dressage saddle and a double bridle for level 8 and above.
(Now, the following goes off the assumption that we can hire jockeys. This will not apply if we do not have jockeys - I am including it because I remember it being listed as a planned feature.)
Now, in my inventory I have:
- Harness Fit All
English Saddle Fit 1
English Saddle Fit 4
English Saddle Fit All
Simple English Bridle Full
Saddle Pad Full
Mullen Mouth D Ring Full
Black Hair Bands
Blanket Small
Blanket Medium
Let's say I go and assign tack to BlackHorse and BayHorse. BayHorse is assigned English Saddle Fit 3 and BlackHorse is assigned English Saddle Fit 4. ChestnutHorse, as already stated, is assigned English Saddle Fit 4. All are assigned Simple English Bridle Full, Mullen Mouth D Ring Full and Saddle Pad Full.
Let's say that I enter all three into a dressage competition. Despite only having one bridle, bit and saddle pad, there is no problem, since the tack is simply 'swapped' between each horse.
But now, let's say that I enter two of them into a Saddleseat competition. There is a problem, as there is only one bridle between two of them.
Let's say that I now go and get two more bridles, saddle pads and bits and try to enter both of them again.
There is now no problem - there is enough tack for both of them (for the saddles, one would wear the Fit All and the other the Fit 4.)
However, let's say I try to enter all three into the Saddleseat competition now. There is now a problem - while there are enough bridles, pads and bits, there is only one Fit 4 saddle and one Fit All. Thus, the third horse does not have a saddle.
If I went and got another Fit 3, Fit 4 or Fit All saddle, I would be able to enter all 3 into the same Saddleseat competition, as there are now enough saddles of the assigned type for each horse.
That is the conclusion of my thoughts and suggestion. I hope I have managed to fit everything coherently together!
BlackOak2 Offline
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:41 am Posts: 11109 Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
Heavy Reading! 
But well thought out, as your other ones.
There may be too many pages to go through when there's errors thrown, but that's really only a problem when (if) it gets to us. After it's already a part of the game, building a competition stable will come with only so many errors thrown.
What I mean is, all of my horses in my stables now, would be a problem getting through all those errors. But if I started anew and met each error on ONE horse, it'll be a lot less pages to go through.
Eh, that's the way it is, sometimes, when new parts are given to us.
Personally, it may be too much to implement? But I like the level of expansion. That said, I'm not sure I like giving one 'Fit-All' set for every discipline to new accounts. Could be exploited in a number of ways. But I do think it might be appropriate to give them at least one. That would be much harder to exploit.
Of course, if such free sets would be unavailable to sell back to the store or to sell to another player, then there would be no way to exploit it and I'd feel better about either option (giving them one full set for each discipline or one full set for one discipline).
I have mixed feelings about being required to have a certain set to enter high-level competitions. I like it, because by that time, you should be ready to do so and have proper equipment for your horse, but I don't like having a great horse and being leveled out entirely of lower shows and not being able to enter higher ones because I'm out of equipment. I think, there should just be a heavier penalty for such a thing.
Our horses can level-out of lower shows in as few as 4 starts. many of mine do, although, it is also very rare for one of mine to level out of anything lower than level 6, even after 20 or 50 starts.
I did have one level out of anything below level 7 in I think it was 5 starts... So I do suppose it's possible, but not very probable.
If being locked out of higher level competitions does come, because of missing equipment, I'd like to have an option to borrow another player's tack. In this way, we keep open players that have great horses, but minimal options of money but do not create
Actually, I'm not sure about that either. Borrowing tack could become exploited as well. Maybe only borrowing regular tack and not all-fit tack? And once a tack set is under borrow-rules, it gets locked for everything else. I.E. Borrowed tack can only ever be used on one horse, even in multiple-entry competitions. Thus it forces us to either purchase the tack ourselves or have one account purchasing a creepers-load of tack. Either way, it forces the purchases rather than allowing exploitation of one set of tack.
I am of the firm decision that all-fit tack is for that account use only. PT is easy enough for us to come by and there are options for us outside of using PT for tack. So upgrading our tack to all-fit should only ever be for the use of that account. I feel that is the fairer option.
Yeah.
Anyway, I like your thoughts.
As usual.
But well thought out, as your other ones.
There may be too many pages to go through when there's errors thrown, but that's really only a problem when (if) it gets to us. After it's already a part of the game, building a competition stable will come with only so many errors thrown.
What I mean is, all of my horses in my stables now, would be a problem getting through all those errors. But if I started anew and met each error on ONE horse, it'll be a lot less pages to go through.
Eh, that's the way it is, sometimes, when new parts are given to us.
Personally, it may be too much to implement? But I like the level of expansion. That said, I'm not sure I like giving one 'Fit-All' set for every discipline to new accounts. Could be exploited in a number of ways. But I do think it might be appropriate to give them at least one. That would be much harder to exploit.
Of course, if such free sets would be unavailable to sell back to the store or to sell to another player, then there would be no way to exploit it and I'd feel better about either option (giving them one full set for each discipline or one full set for one discipline).
I have mixed feelings about being required to have a certain set to enter high-level competitions. I like it, because by that time, you should be ready to do so and have proper equipment for your horse, but I don't like having a great horse and being leveled out entirely of lower shows and not being able to enter higher ones because I'm out of equipment. I think, there should just be a heavier penalty for such a thing.
Our horses can level-out of lower shows in as few as 4 starts. many of mine do, although, it is also very rare for one of mine to level out of anything lower than level 6, even after 20 or 50 starts.
I did have one level out of anything below level 7 in I think it was 5 starts... So I do suppose it's possible, but not very probable.
If being locked out of higher level competitions does come, because of missing equipment, I'd like to have an option to borrow another player's tack. In this way, we keep open players that have great horses, but minimal options of money but do not create
Actually, I'm not sure about that either. Borrowing tack could become exploited as well. Maybe only borrowing regular tack and not all-fit tack? And once a tack set is under borrow-rules, it gets locked for everything else. I.E. Borrowed tack can only ever be used on one horse, even in multiple-entry competitions. Thus it forces us to either purchase the tack ourselves or have one account purchasing a creepers-load of tack. Either way, it forces the purchases rather than allowing exploitation of one set of tack.
I am of the firm decision that all-fit tack is for that account use only. PT is easy enough for us to come by and there are options for us outside of using PT for tack. So upgrading our tack to all-fit should only ever be for the use of that account. I feel that is the fairer option.
Yeah.
Anyway, I like your thoughts.
As usual. Don't forget to check it out!
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Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
Thank you!BlackOak2 wrote:Heavy Reading!
But well thought out, as your other ones.
There may be too many pages to go through when there's errors thrown, but that's really only a problem when (if) it gets to us. After it's already a part of the game, building a competition stable will come with only so many errors thrown.
What I mean is, all of my horses in my stables now, would be a problem getting through all those errors. But if I started anew and met each error on ONE horse, it'll be a lot less pages to go through.
Eh, that's the way it is, sometimes, when new parts are given to us.
Personally, it may be too much to implement? But I like the level of expansion. That said, I'm not sure I like giving one 'Fit-All' set for every discipline to new accounts. Could be exploited in a number of ways. But I do think it might be appropriate to give them at least one. That would be much harder to exploit.
Of course, if such free sets would be unavailable to sell back to the store or to sell to another player, then there would be no way to exploit it and I'd feel better about either option (giving them one full set for each discipline or one full set for one discipline).
I have mixed feelings about being required to have a certain set to enter high-level competitions. I like it, because by that time, you should be ready to do so and have proper equipment for your horse, but I don't like having a great horse and being leveled out entirely of lower shows and not being able to enter higher ones because I'm out of equipment. I think, there should just be a heavier penalty for such a thing.
Our horses can level-out of lower shows in as few as 4 starts. many of mine do, although, it is also very rare for one of mine to level out of anything lower than level 6, even after 20 or 50 starts.
I did have one level out of anything below level 7 in I think it was 5 starts... So I do suppose it's possible, but not very probable.
If being locked out of higher level competitions does come, because of missing equipment, I'd like to have an option to borrow another player's tack. In this way, we keep open players that have great horses, but minimal options of money but do not create
Actually, I'm not sure about that either. Borrowing tack could become exploited as well. Maybe only borrowing regular tack and not all-fit tack? And once a tack set is under borrow-rules, it gets locked for everything else. I.E. Borrowed tack can only ever be used on one horse, even in multiple-entry competitions. Thus it forces us to either purchase the tack ourselves or have one account purchasing a creepers-load of tack. Either way, it forces the purchases rather than allowing exploitation of one set of tack.
I am of the firm decision that all-fit tack is for that account use only. PT is easy enough for us to come by and there are options for us outside of using PT for tack. So upgrading our tack to all-fit should only ever be for the use of that account. I feel that is the fairer option.
Yeah.
Anyway, I like your thoughts.
Oh yes, that's why I wanted there to be the ability to turn off all error notifications once! Especially since I know that I would absolutely not want to have to deal with assigning tack to all of my horses just to test and delete 75% of them. I would rather have the slightly lower scores for horses that I'm simply testing for competition potential! Although I must say, I definitely don't think there should be any tack penalty for local competitions.
I think you might be right on the borrowing tack - I don't think it would be of much benefit and would be too easily exploited. Although... if borrowing tack is so that newer players can enter all of their horses in competitions, without having to buy PT tack or spend lots of in-game money on various tack, it could perhaps be that, in level 1 competitions, you either don't need tack OR you can borrow tack from the competition-host?
I have also now remembered: given how happily our older players help the newer ones, we probably won't have much issue with giving a new player money to fit their horse with the correct tack... alternatively, we could perhaps even be able to sell a horse with its tack, although I suspect the latter might be annoying to code.
I don't think that, overall, the features I suggested will be terribly difficult to code, although I do think that it would be rather arduous, especially if we have multiple factors that determine saddle fit.
Yes! I wanted tack requirements to fit real life, a bit - for example, you wouldn't even be allowed into a high level dressage event without a double bridle (although I will admit that, in real life, I find this annoying... surely a person who is talented enough to ride high level dressage bitless should be allowed to. But anyway, that's a rant for a different post.)
Yes, I definitely like how we don't have away to trade PT and PT-bought items between accounts - I feel that this is part of what helps prevent this game from becoming play-to-win. Which I think is overall important for the culture of this game player-base and our general kindness towards each other. (If this game had been play-to-win... I can say for a fact: I never would have been able to stick with it as long as I have.)
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:41 am Posts: 11109 Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
Allowing the ability to borrow tack, would allow other players in our community the opportunity to help others without having to go down the sometimes slippery slope of just giving money away.Malakai10 wrote: Thank you!
Oh yes, that's why I wanted there to be the ability to turn off all error notifications once! Especially since I know that I would absolutely not want to have to deal with assigning tack to all of my horses just to test and delete 75% of them. I would rather have the slightly lower scores for horses that I'm simply testing for competition potential! Although I must say, I definitely don't think there should be any tack penalty for local competitions.
I think you might be right on the borrowing tack - I don't think it would be of much benefit and would be too easily exploited. Although... if borrowing tack is so that newer players can enter all of their horses in competitions, without having to buy PT tack or spend lots of in-game money on various tack, it could perhaps be that, in level 1 competitions, you either don't need tack OR you can borrow tack from the competition-host?
I have also now remembered: given how happily our older players help the newer ones, we probably won't have much issue with giving a new player money to fit their horse with the correct tack... alternatively, we could perhaps even be able to sell a horse with its tack, although I suspect the latter might be annoying to code.
I don't think that, overall, the features I suggested will be terribly difficult to code, although I do think that it would be rather arduous, especially if we have multiple factors that determine saddle fit.
Yes! I wanted tack requirements to fit real life, a bit - for example, you wouldn't even be allowed into a high level dressage event without a double bridle (although I will admit that, in real life, I find this annoying... surely a person who is talented enough to ride high level dressage bitless should be allowed to. But anyway, that's a rant for a different post.)
Yes, I definitely like how we don't have away to trade PT and PT-bought items between accounts - I feel that this is part of what helps prevent this game from becoming play-to-win. Which I think is overall important for the culture of this game player-base and our general kindness towards each other. (If this game had been play-to-win... I can say for a fact: I never would have been able to stick with it as long as I have.)
We have a handle on it (it seems) but too easily we could have people devolve to begging other players that have given away free money, to giving them free money as well.
It might be a steep learning curve...
And I also think it's annoying. About requiring certain types of tack. I do remember, a couple years ago, watching... it must've been the equestrian olympics, down in... was it brazil? Anyway, one of their dressage horse and riders, had entered into it using a bitless. Which I thought at the same time 'communication between those two must be great' and 'is that allowed???'
They didn't get as high a score as I thought they should've, but we won't go into that area of judge-related-buyouts.
Suffice to say, it was a gorgeous performance and better than the others. I think I remember the newscasters saying something about the horse having an ulcer that day and the rider decided to take some penalties with the bitless or something, but I can't remember well enough... and maybe that was my own thoughts!
I also agree, locals should not take any penalties for tack, no tack or ill-fitted tack. As far as I'm concerned, locals are like training shows.
Borrowing tack from the competition host could certainly be an option. It would make hosted competitions more intricate, certainly. And offer a secondary option for making money.
I think the real question comes down to, 'How intensive and intricate should this game become?' Our admin is doing a ...shall I say... heavenly... job of making it easy while giving it an in-depth that's just unmatched elsewhere. But applying too much to think of, will could alienate some of our younger or more leisurely players. By offering a fit-all collection of tack, this fits both areas quite well. But still puts them behind a vale of 'earn or purchase PT to acquire'.
I wouldn't mind when in the future, we can sell tack to each other. Although I think and of generally the firm consensus that any player-to-player sales should not include PT. So even PT-related tack could only ever be put up for regular monies.
In the end, that would still force people that want to sell PT tack for monies, the only two options of grind for PT or purchase the PT. Either is still an acceptable outcome.
I don't know if it could become a problem or not.
I actually think it could work quite well.
I think, after all this time, tack should never be sold with the horse. I think, the option of having player-to-player tack sales, is more than enough to compensate for that. Should it ever come to pass, that tack goes with the horse... then we'd also have to deal with, tack that's just on the horse, visually, or also the tack that's been equipped for competitions? Too often tack will be forgotten, leading to the sudden and irreversible loss of valuable tack, especially if it's the fit-all tack. If the horse has tack that can go with it, it wouldn't be much of an additional bother to place the tack for sale. And then, any unneeded tack would just go that way.
Important for the game to earn money, but also important to ensure there are minimal ways to exploit and then also very important that admin desire is also followed, in this case, to keep things fair overall and to avoid going toward pay-to-win in any avenue.
I could agree that even as many as levels 1 through level 3 gets minor, if any, penalties for missing or wrong tack. But I'd want an option that allows players to access even the top levels, if tack is missing or completely wrong anyway.
After all, a record-breaking horse is still going to win competitions even if nakie!
But it could mean the difference between placing in-money and placing out-of-money for other horses.It'd be an interesting addition that could be fun to play around with.
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:24 pm Posts: 353 Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
Not a fan. Would rather get geldings over anything.
Very good ideas and great thought put into it.
Very good ideas and great thought put into it.
Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
I think I agree with all of this, though it doesn't seem very real life based if having the wrong tack gives you a penalty. It does make sense to need tack in order to enter in a competition.
What about Local Shows? Will it apply to those too?
What about Local Shows? Will it apply to those too?
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Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:41 am Posts: 11109 Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
As said by the author:Diamond Filly wrote:I think I agree with all of this, though it doesn't seem very real life based if having the wrong tack gives you a penalty. It does make sense to need tack in order to enter in a competition.
What about Local Shows? Will it apply to those too?
And I agreed as well. No tack penalty at all, even if there is no tack for local shows.I definitely don't think there should be any tack penalty for local competitions.
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Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
The wrong penalty for incorrect tack is based on the thought that tack for different disciplines is better in those disciplines, to varying degrees.Diamond Filly wrote:I think I agree with all of this, though it doesn't seem very real life based if having the wrong tack gives you a penalty. It does make sense to need tack in order to enter in a competition.
What about Local Shows? Will it apply to those too?
Say, for example, you tried to race a horse in a western saddle. A western saddle is pretty heavy and thus the horse would be much slower than normal.
If you entered a showjumping competition in a dressage saddle, you would be able to do it at lower levels but the shape of the saddle simply makes it much more difficult and it changes the way your leg rest and the different saddle shape has an effect on how the horse moves.
How much of a penalty you get from wrong tack type would depend on how incorrect it is - for example, racing in a western saddle would lead to a heavy tack penalty whereas dressage in a gp saddle would lead to only a very minor penalty and probably no penalty at all at level 1-3.
The reason wrong tack, fit wise, would hinder them: IRL badly fitting tack will cause discomfort or even outright pain in a horse and can lead to permanent injury.
And no, I don't think it should apply to local shows.
Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
That makes sense now! Thank you.Malakai10 wrote:The wrong penalty for incorrect tack is based on the thought that tack for different disciplines is better in those disciplines, to varying degrees.Diamond Filly wrote:I think I agree with all of this, though it doesn't seem very real life based if having the wrong tack gives you a penalty. It does make sense to need tack in order to enter in a competition.
What about Local Shows? Will it apply to those too?
Say, for example, you tried to race a horse in a western saddle. A western saddle is pretty heavy and thus the horse would be much slower than normal.
If you entered a showjumping competition in a dressage saddle, you would be able to do it at lower levels but the shape of the saddle simply makes it much more difficult and it changes the way your leg rest and the different saddle shape has an effect on how the horse moves.
How much of a penalty you get from wrong tack type would depend on how incorrect it is - for example, racing in a western saddle would lead to a heavy tack penalty whereas dressage in a gp saddle would lead to only a very minor penalty and probably no penalty at all at level 1-3.
The reason wrong tack, fit wise, would hinder them: IRL badly fitting tack will cause discomfort or even outright pain in a horse and can lead to permanent injury.
And no, I don't think it should apply to local shows.
Re: Thoughts on tack, possible injuries, plaiting, entering competitions and coi
Oh, I missed that. Thank you!BlackOak2 wrote:As said by the author:Diamond Filly wrote:I think I agree with all of this, though it doesn't seem very real life based if having the wrong tack gives you a penalty. It does make sense to need tack in order to enter in a competition.
What about Local Shows? Will it apply to those too?And I agreed as well. No tack penalty at all, even if there is no tack for local shows.I definitely don't think there should be any tack penalty for local competitions.