Help with a Cream Pearl

[EclipticEnd]

I know that this horse is a cream pearl mix, most likely a palomino pearl; however, I'm not super familiar with this type of dilution and I'm not sure if there's anything else going on or if he's just a normal palomino pearl.

The sire is a palomino roan.
The dam is a grulla dun tobiano with a single pearl gene, which she passed on.

[BlackOak2]

I know that this horse is a cream pearl mix, most likely a palomino pearl; however, I'm not super familiar with this type of dilution and I'm not sure if there's anything else going on or if he's just a normal palomino pearl.

The sire is a palomino roan.
The dam is a grulla dun tobiano with a single pearl gene, which she passed on.

I agree. Palomino pearl. I also see pangare and it's hard to decide whether it's dun or roan. I don't think it's both. I'm leaning toward roan.

Pangare comes from the sire line.

[Sun Valley Ranch]

That coat color is techniquelly called Perlino.

[BlackOak2]

To be clear, a Perlino is two creams on a bay coat.

Palomino pearl is a cream and a pearl on a chestnut coat.

[Silverine]

I know that this horse is a cream pearl mix, most likely a palomino pearl; however, I'm not super familiar with this type of dilution and I'm not sure if there's anything else going on or if he's just a normal palomino pearl.

The sire is a palomino roan.
The dam is a grulla dun tobiano with a single pearl gene, which she passed on.

I agree. Palomino pearl. I also see pangare and it's hard to decide whether it's dun or roan. I don't think it's both. I'm leaning toward roan.

Pangare comes from the sire line.

So this horse is actually a Silver Smoky Black Pearl. The sire carries a hidden silver from his own sire. The silver is also what is causing the pangare-like markings. We can rule out palomino pearl because of the color of the mane and tail - they are much too dark and yellow for that color. They are also characteristic of silver.

[EclipticEnd]

I agree. Palomino pearl. I also see pangare and it's hard to decide whether it's dun or roan. I don't think it's both. I'm leaning toward roan.

Pangare comes from the sire line.

So this horse is actually a Silver Smoky Black Pearl. The sire carries a hidden silver from his own sire. The silver is also what is causing the pangare-like markings. We can rule out palomino pearl because of the color of the mane and tail - they are much too dark and yellow for that color. They are also characteristic of silver.

I've been using Totina's color guide because I trust their judgement far more than my own. Unfortunately they don't have Smoky Black Pearl listed yet, so I've decided to do some digging into their horses. I found a few pearl x cream variants, which I have listed below. Of them, Palomino Pearl matches best to my guy's color. I made sure to add a Smoky Black Pearl Dun for reference, since dun lightens the body color save for certain points; it's still much to brown to match.

As silver only needs one gene in order to be visible, I can immediately count the mother out for it. She doesn't have any silver genes, though as noted previously she is a Black Dun (Grulla / Grullo).

For all intents and purposes, the father looks like a Palomino Roan. However, the paternal grandfather is a Silver Dapple Roan as Silverine said.

So... I checked his progeny. I did have another foal with him and it did have silver, but the mom also had silver so this isn't indicative of his genes. I found that he was matched with a Black mare who didn't have silver, and the outcome was a Silver Dapple. While the mare's lineage does have Flaxen, this only shows up on Chestnut bases, of which that foal is not. He also matched with a buckskin and produced a Silver Buckskin.

This confirms that he's Silver as you noted, but doesn't confirm whether he passed that on to this horse.

I have only recently bred this horse to a number of my own to test the Roan vs. Dun thing. I suppose if any of the offspring are Silver then that'll answer that. I'm also going to stick with Palomino Pearl due to the body coloration. He is a bit more yellow in tone than the listed Palomino Pearls, but he's also fully trained and either Roan or Dun. If he's Silver, then that might impact his coloration as well, I think, depending on whether he's dappling. I'm going to tentatively agree with Mealy; his back legs look slightly paler than his body, and his nose as well. Can't really tell with his front legs as he's Tobiano.

I'm still curious about the possibility of Dun as when you look at his foal pictures before his mane grew out, there's a dark stripe at the base of his mane. The top of his tail also has some coloring. I'm unsure if this is a Dun or Silver thing. I'm doing my best to learn from BlackOak2's studies (Dun and Silver). (They're super helpful by the way!) I've noticed it showing up on both Silver and Dun foals, so I'm not sure if it's a commonality between them. I'm aware of a "Plume" gene that offers a light stripe down the base of the mane and light coloration in the tail as a friend has a horse with that, but this is the opposite.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
My horse:




They have these horses listed as Palomino Pearl:






They have this horse listed as Smoky Black Pearl Dun:




And this one as plain Smoky Black Pearl:




They have these horses listed as Smoky Brown Pearl:

[BlackOak2]

I agree. Palomino pearl. I also see pangare and it's hard to decide whether it's dun or roan. I don't think it's both. I'm leaning toward roan.

Pangare comes from the sire line.

So this horse is actually a Silver Smoky Black Pearl. The sire carries a hidden silver from his own sire. The silver is also what is causing the pangare-like markings. We can rule out palomino pearl because of the color of the mane and tail - they are much too dark and yellow for that color. They are also characteristic of silver.

Whoops!
Got caught again.
This is why there are backups to our checkers.

Thank you, Silverine, the second-check is important and will remain so.

*************
Notations after seeing the above post.

The main indication of silver, is the fact that the mane and tail are not light enough to indicated the chestnut base, which is something I entirely missed.
The dapples, or lack there of, didn't go unnoticed to me the first time around, which I immediately leaned toward chestnut. The mane and tail should be quite a bit lighter, verging on a 'true white' if it was chestnut.
If you take a look at the two palomino pearls you have listed, you can clearly see their mane's and tails quite a bit brighter than the horse in question.

By they way, on my monitor, I do see white stockings on his front legs.
But so far, your reply is quite thorough. You're there, just missing some things that we all miss from time to time.

In his case, it'll be the silver that will be changing his coat color toward this gold-spectrum. Consider a silver dapple, double cream coat.


Actually, after a brief look at the pedigree, this may also be a cream & pearl.

[EclipticEnd]

Whoops!
Got caught again.
This is why there are backups to our checkers.

Thank you, Silverine, the second-check is important and will remain so.

*************
Notations after seeing the above post.

The main indication of silver, is the fact that the mane and tail are not light enough to indicated the chestnut base, which is something I entirely missed.
The dapples, or lack there of, didn't go unnoticed to me the first time around, which I immediately leaned toward chestnut. The mane and tail should be quite a bit lighter, verging on a 'true white' if it was chestnut.
If you take a look at the two palomino pearls you have listed, you can clearly see their mane's and tails quite a bit brighter than the horse in question.

By they way, on my monitor, I do see white stockings on his front legs.
But so far, your reply is quite thorough. You're there, just missing some things that we all miss from time to time.

In his case, it'll be the silver that will be changing his coat color toward this gold-spectrum. Consider a silver dapple, double cream coat.


Actually, after a brief look at the pedigree, this may also be a cream & pearl.

Ah. He would be a Silver Smoky Black Pearl, then?

[BlackOak2]

Whoops!
Got caught again.
This is why there are backups to our checkers.

Thank you, Silverine, the second-check is important and will remain so.

*************
Notations after seeing the above post.

The main indication of silver, is the fact that the mane and tail are not light enough to indicated the chestnut base, which is something I entirely missed.
The dapples, or lack there of, didn't go unnoticed to me the first time around, which I immediately leaned toward chestnut. The mane and tail should be quite a bit lighter, verging on a 'true white' if it was chestnut.
If you take a look at the two palomino pearls you have listed, you can clearly see their mane's and tails quite a bit brighter than the horse in question.

By they way, on my monitor, I do see white stockings on his front legs.
But so far, your reply is quite thorough. You're there, just missing some things that we all miss from time to time.

In his case, it'll be the silver that will be changing his coat color toward this gold-spectrum. Consider a silver dapple, double cream coat.


Actually, after a brief look at the pedigree, this may also be a cream & pearl.

Ah. He would be a Silver Smoky Black Pearl, then?

Yes, Silverine has the right of it. Your horse is just lacking the dapples, which is rare, but not unusual. Which also means the pangare he's showing is a pseudo-version of it, it's an effect that the silver sometimes exhibits when paired with black.

[EclipticEnd]

Alrighty. Thanks for the help!