3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
So I saw my account has been around for a little bit more than 3 years now and I wanted to write some of my thoughts down.
So one of the first things I had to come to terms with in this game was and is its slow development. Not much has happened in these 3 years sadly. Only once has there been a game changing update and that was the tobiano update. It brought me and surely many others back to the game to test out the new content. Like many other free to play games there seems to be a large focus on cosmetic content you can charge players for and that content is what almost all other updates have been about during my time here.
Personally Im not a big cosmetic fan when it comes to this specific game. There have been plenty of other games where Im very much into cosmetics but not so much in this game. The quality of some cosmetics are lacking which is also off-putting but other cosmetics looks extremely good so to me there seems to be a big inconsistency in the art style and the artist(s?) working on those. I do of course have a few ideas in mind of cosmetics that would interest me but I feel like an uplift in its cosmetics is not what this game should focus on right now.
Theres a big to-do list for this game. It looks exciting when you read through it but the amount of content might even be too overwhelming for the developers since adding content to a list of things you want to do is way easier than actually implementing it. It makes me think the project struggles with its management but I can only say this from an outsiders perspective. I'm not a member of their discord so I haven't talked to them personally.
Thats another thing. Their discord is Patreon only which I guess is a way to filter out community engagements, I don't know. Am I curious about joining? Yeah sure. Do I want to pay for it? Depends. Paying to engage with the community and the developers seems a bit off or shady sure but let's consider it a normal procedure. Now what holds me back is the slow development. What am I missing by not joining the discord? I can only imagine its not a lot since the game is as I've been told before the developer's side project. And that makes me question, will the game ever reach a state such as full release. My genuine opinion based on my experience here and in the gaming industry and slight knowledge of the developing industry is: No. This game won't be finished because there is no drive to finish it. Maybe in the future or maybe not.
I cannot say the developers have not invested time and money into this project because I'm sure they have but when large sums of money are invested in a project that usually drives the team to push for a releasable state where they can make that money back and Im not sure that is happening here.
Now its easy to have an opinion about a game you have not spent any more money on than the money ads provide, I know but everything listed above is the reason I have not. Would I spend money on a fast-developing game. Yeah and so I have done and are currently doing. I don't judge studios based on their manpower but on the work they put through. Working with a small indie studio have given me much insight and I no longer see "but they are a small team" as a valid excuse for anything. Theres always other reasons development doesn't move forward.
So why do I hate this game so much? I don't I really don't. I love its core and the things the developers have managed to create. If I did not care I wouldn't still be here but why am I still here even though I wrote earlier that this game won't reach a releasable state. Hope I guess.
I know a 3D version of the game sounds awesome and cool but that's seriously something the devs should drop until the 2D version is released and polished to the point they feel ready to move on.
I really really hope for this team to get it together and push for a release rather then something they poke on as a spare time hobby. This game deserves so much more, its COMMUNITY deserves so much more. The people paying for cosmetics and patreon need to know their money goes into more than just production of cosmetics. This game feels more like a promise currently but I'm not sure this promise will hold up. I hope so.
And final word. Its OK to disagree with me but I really don't want people storming here defend anyone unless I have stated anything that's wrong. I know the team is small, I know the developers are people with a life but things like that should not cloud your vision of the product.
In the end we all want the best for the game and the team.
So one of the first things I had to come to terms with in this game was and is its slow development. Not much has happened in these 3 years sadly. Only once has there been a game changing update and that was the tobiano update. It brought me and surely many others back to the game to test out the new content. Like many other free to play games there seems to be a large focus on cosmetic content you can charge players for and that content is what almost all other updates have been about during my time here.
Personally Im not a big cosmetic fan when it comes to this specific game. There have been plenty of other games where Im very much into cosmetics but not so much in this game. The quality of some cosmetics are lacking which is also off-putting but other cosmetics looks extremely good so to me there seems to be a big inconsistency in the art style and the artist(s?) working on those. I do of course have a few ideas in mind of cosmetics that would interest me but I feel like an uplift in its cosmetics is not what this game should focus on right now.
Theres a big to-do list for this game. It looks exciting when you read through it but the amount of content might even be too overwhelming for the developers since adding content to a list of things you want to do is way easier than actually implementing it. It makes me think the project struggles with its management but I can only say this from an outsiders perspective. I'm not a member of their discord so I haven't talked to them personally.
Thats another thing. Their discord is Patreon only which I guess is a way to filter out community engagements, I don't know. Am I curious about joining? Yeah sure. Do I want to pay for it? Depends. Paying to engage with the community and the developers seems a bit off or shady sure but let's consider it a normal procedure. Now what holds me back is the slow development. What am I missing by not joining the discord? I can only imagine its not a lot since the game is as I've been told before the developer's side project. And that makes me question, will the game ever reach a state such as full release. My genuine opinion based on my experience here and in the gaming industry and slight knowledge of the developing industry is: No. This game won't be finished because there is no drive to finish it. Maybe in the future or maybe not.
I cannot say the developers have not invested time and money into this project because I'm sure they have but when large sums of money are invested in a project that usually drives the team to push for a releasable state where they can make that money back and Im not sure that is happening here.
Now its easy to have an opinion about a game you have not spent any more money on than the money ads provide, I know but everything listed above is the reason I have not. Would I spend money on a fast-developing game. Yeah and so I have done and are currently doing. I don't judge studios based on their manpower but on the work they put through. Working with a small indie studio have given me much insight and I no longer see "but they are a small team" as a valid excuse for anything. Theres always other reasons development doesn't move forward.
So why do I hate this game so much? I don't I really don't. I love its core and the things the developers have managed to create. If I did not care I wouldn't still be here but why am I still here even though I wrote earlier that this game won't reach a releasable state. Hope I guess.
I know a 3D version of the game sounds awesome and cool but that's seriously something the devs should drop until the 2D version is released and polished to the point they feel ready to move on.
I really really hope for this team to get it together and push for a release rather then something they poke on as a spare time hobby. This game deserves so much more, its COMMUNITY deserves so much more. The people paying for cosmetics and patreon need to know their money goes into more than just production of cosmetics. This game feels more like a promise currently but I'm not sure this promise will hold up. I hope so.
And final word. Its OK to disagree with me but I really don't want people storming here defend anyone unless I have stated anything that's wrong. I know the team is small, I know the developers are people with a life but things like that should not cloud your vision of the product.
In the end we all want the best for the game and the team.
Silverine Offline
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 3:13 am Posts: 1908 Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
Some important points that I think should be noted:
The "team" is Larissa and Tom. That's it. It's just the two of them doing code, art, moderation, and everything else around their full-time jobs and any other commitments they have in their lives.
No one has to spend money on anything in HWO unless they want to, including the cosmetics you mention. PT can be easily won from local competitions. Player Bonuses are the only thing that cannot be purchased through a currency earned from gameplay, and those bonuses - while useful - can be easily done without. Yes, there is a Discord associated with Patreon, but there is nothing stopping players from creating their own Discord channel.
I pay for the Patreon. And I know what my money goes toward - server maintenance for a game that has immense databases, storage, and processing needs. I find that a lot of people often don't think about the vast behind-the-scenes expenses of a web game.
I agree that the game has great potential. But to tell the team to "get it together" is just plain rude. Yes, development is slow. Yes, the community wants improvements and updates. But posts like this are not constructive. I'm not telling you not to voice your opinion. But perhaps instead of simply telling the developers to "work harder" (on a game that you have even said you realize is a hobby) you should think instead of constructive suggestions.
The "team" is Larissa and Tom. That's it. It's just the two of them doing code, art, moderation, and everything else around their full-time jobs and any other commitments they have in their lives.
No one has to spend money on anything in HWO unless they want to, including the cosmetics you mention. PT can be easily won from local competitions. Player Bonuses are the only thing that cannot be purchased through a currency earned from gameplay, and those bonuses - while useful - can be easily done without. Yes, there is a Discord associated with Patreon, but there is nothing stopping players from creating their own Discord channel.
I pay for the Patreon. And I know what my money goes toward - server maintenance for a game that has immense databases, storage, and processing needs. I find that a lot of people often don't think about the vast behind-the-scenes expenses of a web game.
I agree that the game has great potential. But to tell the team to "get it together" is just plain rude. Yes, development is slow. Yes, the community wants improvements and updates. But posts like this are not constructive. I'm not telling you not to voice your opinion. But perhaps instead of simply telling the developers to "work harder" (on a game that you have even said you realize is a hobby) you should think instead of constructive suggestions.
Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
I think you completely miss my point here. I know the team is just two people which should make my point even clearer. They are in over their heads. If they were seriously aiming to complete this game they would need to expand.Silverine wrote:-snip-
I don't know why you brought up the second point about spending money I do not know what to add because I'm unsure what point you are trying to represent. Im aware you don't need to spend money on the project I don't know what you want me to say here honestly.
And no nothing is stopping players from making unofficial stuff but again that is not what I am talking about.
And for Patreon money, if that money is only for server maintenance and upkeep and not for development that makes me extremely concerned about their budgeting but it would explain the slow development.
Since you are a Patreon yourself do you happen to know if their discord is active? like daily activity?
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 3:13 am Posts: 1908 Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
Expanding would mean paying someone to join the team. There is nothing on HWO that requires payment, meaning that there is no guaranteed income let alone a guaranteed profit. Without profit Larissa and Tom would need to pay any help out of their own pocket.
The point about money is exactly what I in the above paragraph - no one on HWO needs to pay for anything at all, meaning that this game makes very little if any money. To pay people you need to be making money. Which gives us two options with HWO - enduring a slow development cycle because our unpaid development team has lives and jobs that do not revolve around the game, or having HWO change to a pay-to-play system that would be able to sustain added team members.
The Discord is not very active because so few people actually subscribe to utilize it. When I first subscribed there was a bit of chatter but most people have either left or are not active on the channel. At the moment it is very rare for me to see more than one or two people other than myself listed as online in the channel. However, Tom and Larissa are very responsive to messages on the channel and are very quick to answer questions or respond to feedback left on it.
The point about money is exactly what I in the above paragraph - no one on HWO needs to pay for anything at all, meaning that this game makes very little if any money. To pay people you need to be making money. Which gives us two options with HWO - enduring a slow development cycle because our unpaid development team has lives and jobs that do not revolve around the game, or having HWO change to a pay-to-play system that would be able to sustain added team members.
The Discord is not very active because so few people actually subscribe to utilize it. When I first subscribed there was a bit of chatter but most people have either left or are not active on the channel. At the moment it is very rare for me to see more than one or two people other than myself listed as online in the channel. However, Tom and Larissa are very responsive to messages on the channel and are very quick to answer questions or respond to feedback left on it.
Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
Yes, paying out of their own pockets is an investment indie studios often have to make if they want to reach a finished state. Investments like these are rather common when it comes to small businesses like this so In my mind its not that far fetched. The indie studio Im volunteering for is doing the very same thing to push for a release when they can start earning invested money back.Silverine wrote:-snip-
The problem with a slow development cycle is that they rarely reach the point of release. The percentage from what Ive heard of indie games that actually do release are extremely small. Its a though market and it does require a massive amount of effort to succeed as an indie developer.
Thank you for your insider word about the discord. Its what I was afraid of being the truth.
Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
I've been playing for five years and I have to say that I just love this game. I think it's an amazing accomplishment and I truly enjoy every minute I have to play.
Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
I'm glad you enjoy it. Im not here do discredit anyone's experience. I enjoy it too which is why I haven't left and instead is voicing my concerns ^^hdmcminn wrote:-snip-
Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
I agree with every single word. I think there's no hope left for this game. If updates keep coming out as often as they do now, we'd have to wait 50 years to see every promised feature implemented. Nobody is going to wait this long and keep playing the same thing over and over again. It's getting old to see people telling 'you can't judge them, it's a pet project, they're busy blah-blah'. It's fine for a year, two years if there are some serious issues with development, but if they can't do major updates for several years in a row while keeping half of the game behind a paywall, I'm sorry, this pet project should be closed down due to lack of time.GrimCamel wrote:So I saw my account has been around for a little bit more than 3 years now and I wanted to write some of my thoughts down.
Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
Those are all good points. It's true development of the game is fairly slow. Just look at this snapshot from 2004! https://web.archive.org/web/20041113111 ... nline.net/
The discord is a bonus for the Patreon and while it's not super active, we do answer anyone who posts in it as soon as we see it. Sometimes we post screenshots of things we are working on. Larissa does almost all of the art herself. I spend a lot of my time answering questions, dealing with players etc. as I try to answer anyone who pings me on the forum as soon as I can. I also answer my private messages on here.
HWO does make money, not a ton, but it covers the server costs etc. and it's something we enjoy doing so we keep working on it. I'm sure we could make changes to bring it more inline with other free to play games, but I find the experience of them constantly trying to nickle and dime you quite annoying. I don't know what half the game is behind a paywall. We give out pony tokens like candy.
Anyway, keep the feedback coming, we do read it. I'm sorry we can't work harder on the game and get it done faster.
The discord is a bonus for the Patreon and while it's not super active, we do answer anyone who posts in it as soon as we see it. Sometimes we post screenshots of things we are working on. Larissa does almost all of the art herself. I spend a lot of my time answering questions, dealing with players etc. as I try to answer anyone who pings me on the forum as soon as I can. I also answer my private messages on here.
HWO does make money, not a ton, but it covers the server costs etc. and it's something we enjoy doing so we keep working on it. I'm sure we could make changes to bring it more inline with other free to play games, but I find the experience of them constantly trying to nickle and dime you quite annoying. I don't know what half the game is behind a paywall. We give out pony tokens like candy.
Anyway, keep the feedback coming, we do read it. I'm sorry we can't work harder on the game and get it done faster.
Are you working for a game development company for free? That's setting off some pretty loud alarm bells for me. What's the project?GrimCamel wrote:
Yes, paying out of their own pockets is an investment indie studios often have to make if they want to reach a finished state. Investments like these are rather common when it comes to small businesses like this so In my mind its not that far fetched. The indie studio Im volunteering for is doing the very same thing to push for a release when they can start earning invested money back.
Re: 3 Years into the game, my thoughts and opinions
I've loved the concept of HWO for ages. <3 It's definitely the big, realistic, engaging game I'd been wanting out of a horse simulator. I put into the Kickstarter years back to support this goal and I honestly love how intricate the game is in its current state.
That being said, I'm mostly a lurker right now, because a lot of the features that I want out of a horse sim just aren't in yet. I've spent my time here maxing out the courses on both my accounts, so that I can really go full steam head with my projects once HWO is in a more dev'd state. :)
That being said, I'm mostly a lurker right now, because a lot of the features that I want out of a horse sim just aren't in yet. I've spent my time here maxing out the courses on both my accounts, so that I can really go full steam head with my projects once HWO is in a more dev'd state. :)