Color Testing - Foals vs. Parents?

[ArcticDahlia]

So... After this post here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26610
.... I may have gotten a little carried away with breeding to find the "unknown" half of the genes, but I think it helped me learn a bit haha. I wanted to ask about the results and what they most likely mean. There are a LOT of horses involved here though, so as not to make this post unbearably long and unreadable, I made some graphics that I really hope work lol.

I chose 5 mares and bred each of them to the first stallion I wanted to test (Jairo, below) 2-3 times. 4 out of 5 are AC horses I picked up from the market, and one (#4, Jezebel) has an extensive lineage. 3 chestnuts (including Jezebel), 1 bay, and one unknown (I think Pearl something?). Their quick info and respective foals are in the chart below, but links are included in case more info is needed.
Sire:
Jairo

Mares:

Mare Links:
1 (Ivy) - https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2426068
2 (Blue) - https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1589135
3 (Cherry) - https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2555351
4 (Jezebel) - https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2569686
5 (Sunniva) - https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2539024
Foals:

Key: Chronological Birth Number, Foal Name, Dam Number (Chart 1)

Questions
So at the end of the experiment, my guess is that Jairo is probably E/e Z/z? He throws around silver a lot but a lot of threw me for kind of a loop. I bred Ivy 3 times because of the massive difference between the first two foals, and am still confused where 2 came from. 3, 5, and 8 look like Flaxen Chestnuts in my guess, but 8 confused me since he's from a Bay dam unlike the others. It's almost like what I expected from Ivy and Cherry swapped, with all silver/bay foals from Ivy and a surprise flaxen chestnut from Cherry. Shouldn't all of Ivy's offspring look like Blue's since they're both Chestnut? Where are all the Flaxens even coming from in the first place (I know nothing about Flaxen)? And why did 7 & 11 look so different from regular SDs as newborns, did they inherit a Pearl from Sunniva? Am I breeding to the wrong bases to try and rule out double black/silver (which I think have both been disproven)?

I'm really sorry for the long post, I really tried to format it as easy-to-read as possible because I know I have a lot of convoluted (but in reality probably could have been made pretty simple) questions. Thank you to anyone who got this far haha, and for any (and all the previous) help I may get here

[Silverine]

Jairo has to be E/e because he's thrown chestnut foals. He can't be e/e because he's not red-based, and he can't be E/E or he wouldn't have chestnut foals.

I'm 99.99% sure he is Z/Z. Every single one of his black-based foals has displayed silver. We don't know what the chestnuts have because silver doesn't show on chestnut, but with a 100% throw rate on black bases it's safe to assume he's homozygous.

Bali and Vera are both brown. That means that their mother, Ivy, having also thrown a bay, must be A/At. She will never throw a black foal but can throw bay and brown.

Kai being chestnut just means that his dam is E/e like Jairo. When you breed two E/e horses together you have a 25% chance of them popping an e/e, like in your previous post.

Ivy and Blue may both be chestnut, but that doesn't mean they'll throw the same genes every time, or that the foals will get the same genes from Jairo. Jairo only has a 50% chance of throwing his little e around. He just happened to throw that little e to both of Blue's foals and none of Ivy's. So then the appearance of Ivy's foals depended on the agouti genes. In this case Ivy just happened to carry two genes that both mask Jairo's a/a.

Jairo is also the source of the flaxen. It seems he is also homozygous for it as all of the chestnut foals are flaxen, even from non-flaxen dams.

Sunniva's foals are both Smoky Black Silver. They inherited cream, not pearl. Sunniva herself is most likely a Smoky Cream Dun - black + two cream genes + dun. Her foal by another stallion is Perlino Dun - bay + two creams + dun. If you look at Sunniva's ankles she very faint dun spots and her color is that just slightly off shade from a non-dun Smoky Cream. Ferran may have inherited the dun, but is still too young to know for sure since the dun expression is so mild.

[ArcticDahlia]

Jairo has to be E/e because he's thrown chestnut foals. He can't be e/e because he's not red-based, and he can't be E/E or he wouldn't have chestnut foals.

I'm 99.99% sure he is Z/Z. Every single one of his black-based foals has displayed silver. We don't know what the chestnuts have because silver doesn't show on chestnut, but with a 100% throw rate on black bases it's safe to assume he's homozygous.

Bali and Vera are both brown. That means that their mother, Ivy, having also thrown a bay, must be A/At. She will never throw a black foal but can throw bay and brown.

Kai being chestnut just means that his dam is E/e like Jairo. When you breed two E/e horses together you have a 25% chance of them popping an e/e, like in your previous post.

Ivy and Blue may both be chestnut, but that doesn't mean they'll throw the same genes every time, or that the foals will get the same genes from Jairo. Jairo only has a 50% chance of throwing his little e around. He just happened to throw that little e to both of Blue's foals and none of Ivy's. So then the appearance of Ivy's foals depended on the agouti genes. In this case Ivy just happened to carry two genes that both mask Jairo's a/a.

Jairo is also the source of the flaxen. It seems he is also homozygous for it as all of the chestnut foals are flaxen, even from non-flaxen dams.

Sunniva's foals are both Smoky Black Silver. They inherited cream, not pearl. Sunniva herself is most likely a Smoky Cream Dun - black + two cream genes + dun. Her foal by another stallion is Perlino Dun - bay + two creams + dun. If you look at Sunniva's ankles she very faint dun spots and her color is that just slightly off shade from a non-dun Smoky Cream. Ferran may have inherited the dun, but is still too young to know for sure since the dun expression is so mild.

Wow, that explains so much, thank you!!! My one question left is I'm not really sure how the agouti genes work... I know they affect where black can be expressed, but I don't know the difference between A, At, and A+, or exactly how they affect anything but black. All I know is for a horse to be black they need a/a, but can agouti be hidden on a chestnut no matter the combination like flaxen on black? Are all bays just black horses with agouti?

[BlackOak2]

....

Wow, that explains so much, thank you!!! My one question left is I'm not really sure how the agouti genes work... I know they affect where black can be expressed, but I don't know the difference between A, At, and A+, or exactly how they affect anything but black. All I know is for a horse to be black they need a/a, but can agouti be hidden on a chestnut no matter the combination like flaxen on black? Are all bays just black horses with agouti?

Yes, all bays are just black horses with agouti.

Agouti is a gene (at least on the game), that affects only black horses and hides beneath any chestnut horse. Agouti is a triple-gene that shares the same locus (spot), so in this case it's very similar to how cream and pearl interact with one another, insofar as you can only have TWO at any one time, either the same or one of each.

Your agouti genes are:
a = agouti absent
A+ = wild bay
A = bay
At = brown

They work in dominance like this:
Wild Bay over Bay, Brown and Black
Bay over Brown and Black
Brown over Black

So:
A+/A+ or A+/A or A+/At or A+/a = wild bay
A/A or A/At or A/a = bay
At/At or At/a = brown

Because of the 'dominance' of the traits, we don't generally put it like: At/A+, because this is still read as wild bay, so it should be written as A+/At. Thus we understand that the wild bay gene is dominant over the brown gene.

[ArcticDahlia]

Wow, that explains so much, thank you!!! My one question left is I'm not really sure how the agouti genes work... I know they affect where black can be expressed, but I don't know the difference between A, At, and A+, or exactly how they affect anything but black. All I know is for a horse to be black they need a/a, but can agouti be hidden on a chestnut no matter the combination like flaxen on black? Are all bays just black horses with agouti?

Yes, all bays are just black horses with agouti.

Agouti is a gene (at least on the game), that affects only black horses and hides beneath any chestnut horse. Agouti is a triple-gene that shares the same locus (spot), so in this case it's very similar to how cream and pearl interact with one another, insofar as you can only have TWO at any one time, either the same or one of each.

Your agouti genes are:
a = agouti absent
A+ = wild bay
A = bay
At = brown

They work in dominance like this:
Wild Bay over Bay, Brown and Black
Bay over Brown and Black
Brown over Black

So:
A+/A+ or A+/A or A+/At or A+/a = wild bay
A/A or A/At or A/a = bay
At/At or At/a = brown

Because of the 'dominance' of the traits, we don't generally put it like: At/A+, because this is still read as wild bay, so it should be written as A+/At. Thus we understand that the wild bay gene is dominant over the brown gene.

Omg, I literally could not have asked for a simpler explanation! Thank you so much to everyone who helped, I appreciate it so so much!!