Competition System Improvement

[Equuleus]

I was thinking about the show system on this game, and it isn't terribly realistic. Additionally, I've seen this exact show system on several horse games before, and it's just kind of repetitive, not to mention a little bit unoriginal. It is certainly effective, but with a game as innovative and unique as this, it only seems right that it should have an incredible show system to match. I think I have an idea on how to make it more fun, more competitive, and closer to how shows run in reality.

Right now each show is a singular event of a singular level. In reality, a show usually has several different levels of one thing (as in most dressage shows), or a couple different events (think rodeos). I think our show system could be improved if instead of having these singular events, each show has the ability to host 3-5+ different classes (maybe more for premium members than basic members). Each class would work like the individual events we have now, with horses placing in that specific event and earning money and points in that specific event. However, since there would be multiple classes in the show, there would then be an "overall high point", which could be based on whoever had the highest overall score in the entire show. That particular horse would then earn extra money, points, and maybe a special piece of tack that the show host would choose as the high point prize. The horse's picture and link would also be displayed on the show page, if it was recurring, until that horse was knocked off the podium by the next high point winner. I also think it would be neat if there was a ribbon section on a horse's profile showing their high point ribbons or trophies. A good alternative to the idea of high point would be to have the winners of each class in a 5+ class show compete against each other, and the winner gets double or triple the usual amount of points and cash.

This is a better system for several reasons. The first of which is that breed specific shows would be a lot more populated if they offered more levels or more disciplines. Right now, western pleasure paint horses might not compete in paint hunter shows, so there might only be five horses per show after the shows have been up for ages. When they finally run, it's not usually worth it because so few points will be gained. If shows acted like folders on a computer desktop and could hold a few classes, there would be more horses per show, and it would actually be worth it because of the possibility of getting more of a reward from high points. Beyond that, it would improve competitive breeding programs, because people would be more focused on beating competition across disciplines. As some disciplines have such weak showings right now with scores that cannot compete with other disciplines, it would encourage people who breed for those disciplines to work on creating more competitive horses that will win across everything.

Now, I know some people will probably be concerned about where the horses from those weaker disciplines will actually be competitive until they improve. That's simple. There's no need to put dressage, barrels, and endurance in the same show. Why not just do three barrel classes of different levels? That way there could still be shows specialized in single disciplines, and there's no reason why single event shows couldn't still exist too.

I also thought about how in reality there are a lot of bigger, more prestigious shows, and I thought it might be interesting to allow shows to grow bigger if other players sponsor a class. In order to do that, they would go to the show page, and add an event themselves, dictating the entry fee and prize money. The show host would need to approve their class sponsorship, and if they did, that class would be added to the show. That way, we could have some huge, super competitive shows that would be wonderful for earning money and points! I also believe that class sponsorships would help bring our community a little more together, as we'd have to work together to make the show scene as good as it could be.

Either way, I think this would be a fantastic way to get more people involved in Horse World Online's competitive scene, and it would be a lot of fun. Competing in reality is a big deal. Why not make it that way here, too? If you have any feedback, ideas, concerns, or suggestions, please reply to this topic. Let's make the competition system the best one on any horse game on the internet!

[BlackOak2]

I certainly like this. I don't know how difficult this would be to implement.

[Bitapetrone]

Right now each show is a singular event of a singular level. In reality, a show usually has several different levels of one thing (as in most dressage shows), or a couple different events (think rodeos). I think our show system could be improved if instead of having these singular events, each show has the ability to host 3-5+ different classes (maybe more for premium members than basic members). Each class would work like the individual events we have now, with horses placing in that specific event and earning money and points in that specific event.

This sounds snazzy.

However, since there would be multiple classes in the show, there would then be an "overall high point", which could be based on whoever had the highest overall score in the entire show. That particular horse would then earn extra money, points, and maybe a special piece of tack that the show host would choose as the high point prize. The horse's picture and link would also be displayed on the show page, if it was recurring, until that horse was knocked off the podium by the next high point winner. I also think it would be neat if there was a ribbon section on a horse's profile showing their high point ribbons or trophies. A good alternative to the idea of high point would be to have the winners of each class in a 5+ class show compete against each other, and the winner gets double or triple the usual amount of points and cash.

I'm not 100% on what you mean here, so I'll address the two scenarios I believe you could be referring to (please correct me if I am mistaken).

If by highest overall score, you mean the top scores compared across all classes, it would be bias against horses at a lower rank and awkward if the classes were of the same rank but different disciplines. In real life, and here, it would be very difficult to say something like, "Man, that Stadium Jumper really flogged that Hunter today." I can't see a feasible way to compare two events against each other and say "This horse was better than the other." and award one a high point score over the other. If the levels were different (a Dressage show with novice through Grand Prix or what have you) it would be unfair to judge the score of the novice horse against the score of the Grand Prix horse. Of course the Grand Prix horse is going to get the high point. The horses at the lower ranks would be losing at best, and at worst they would be win-feeding higher ranked horses.

If by highest overall score you mean cumulative point gain between all the classes, this is incredibly unfair to horses that specialize. They wouldn't realistically have a shot at getting a high point. However, I can see this feature being implemented for breed specific competitions (much like the AQHA) because then it would be constrained to horses that are jack of all trades. If this were the case, something similar would need to be applied for horses that are bred to specialize, like say real life jumpers, racers, dressage horses, endurance horses, log pullers, etc (the list is quite large).

This is a better system for several reasons. The first of which is that breed specific shows would be a lot more populated if they offered more levels or more disciplines. Right now, western pleasure paint horses might not compete in paint hunter shows, so there might only be five horses per show after the shows have been up for ages. When they finally run, it's not usually worth it because so few points will be gained. If shows acted like folders on a computer desktop and could hold a few classes, there would be more horses per show, and it would actually be worth it because of the possibility of getting more of a reward from high points. Beyond that, it would improve competitive breeding programs, because people would be more focused on beating competition across disciplines. As some disciplines have such weak showings right now with scores that cannot compete with other disciplines, it would encourage people who breed for those disciplines to work on creating more competitive horses that will win across everything.

I'm not sure I understand the math on this. Classes require a certain amount of horses to be entered before they run. Even if you put Hunter and Western Pleasure into the same show, if those Paints still fail to enter in Hunter it'll now hold the entire show up instead of just one class.

Again, I am also unsure of what you mean here with the high point and getting more points per show. It goes back to the quantity of horses in each class. If there's 2 in the Hunter and 10 in the Western Pleasure, the horse that wins Hunter shouldn't be getting points like it beat 11 horses. I can think of a ton of ways that this could be abused. If this isn't the case, then I don't see how this change would effect point gain in any way. There would still be 2 horses in Hunter and 10 in Western Pleasure, just like if they were single shows.

As for weak scores in disciplines, this change you're proposing could actually make that problem worse. Most people already do not specialize. They want to get titles and pretty breeder reports. Best way to get titles? Enter you horse in everything you can enter it in. They'll only make it to level 5 or so, sure, but just about anything can get a title via attrition eventually. This is the majority of the competition scene. Right now there are only 3 disciplines I do not have the absolute highest score in. The majority of my competition horses can only compete at level 10 because their PPS is so high. There are some other horses that compete at level 10, but the quantity is low. To fill out these level 10 shows we NEED a reason for people to specialize. If high point is implemented as you're suggesting, people will be even more inclined to just breed horses that are jack of all trades and stuck at level 5. You cannot have a horse that is amazing in all disciplines so "winning across everything" is not remotely feasible if the other horses out there are specialized. The reason most people do not notice this is because they are competing at sub-level 7.

[Scythian]

I think HWO's use of the term "show" when they really mean

-- a [sponsored-by-a-competitor] class at a [public] show

-- a class at a Local Show which is sponsored by the game itself

is a big source of confusion here.

[Retsi]

I wish there was a trophy/ribbon to be earned per competition! That'd be neat... the person hosting could customize their ribbon and possibly for premium members, there could be more options such as colors, material, etc.
For the higher levels, there could be cups and trophies, possibly in different metals? Maybe for the different competitions there could be neat options, such as a showjumping competition displaying a jumping horse figurine. I wish we could do statues of our horses to display on our farm! lots of stones to turn.

[Bitapetrone]

I wish there was a trophy/ribbon to be earned per competition! That'd be neat... the person hosting could customize their ribbon and possibly for premium members, there could be more options such as colors, material, etc.
For the higher levels, there could be cups and trophies, possibly in different metals? Maybe for the different competitions there could be neat options, such as a showjumping competition displaying a jumping horse figurine. I wish we could do statues of our horses to display on our farm! lots of stones to turn.

These would be really cool additions too. Right now there really isn't any acknowledgement for competing at higher levels as the titles are gained just via points.

[Bombicilla]

Right now each show is a singular event of a singular level. In reality, a show usually has several different levels of one thing (as in most dressage shows), or a couple different events (think rodeos). I think our show system could be improved if instead of having these singular events, each show has the ability to host 3-5+ different classes (maybe more for premium members than basic members). Each class would work like the individual events we have now, with horses placing in that specific event and earning money and points in that specific event.

This sounds snazzy.

However, since there would be multiple classes in the show, there would then be an "overall high point", which could be based on whoever had the highest overall score in the entire show. That particular horse would then earn extra money, points, and maybe a special piece of tack that the show host would choose as the high point prize. The horse's picture and link would also be displayed on the show page, if it was recurring, until that horse was knocked off the podium by the next high point winner. I also think it would be neat if there was a ribbon section on a horse's profile showing their high point ribbons or trophies. A good alternative to the idea of high point would be to have the winners of each class in a 5+ class show compete against each other, and the winner gets double or triple the usual amount of points and cash.

I'm not 100% on what you mean here, so I'll address the two scenarios I believe you could be referring to (please correct me if I am mistaken).

If by highest overall score, you mean the top scores compared across all classes, it would be bias against horses at a lower rank and awkward if the classes were of the same rank but different disciplines. In real life, and here, it would be very difficult to say something like, "Man, that Stadium Jumper really flogged that Hunter today." I can't see a feasible way to compare two events against each other and say "This horse was better than the other." and award one a high point score over the other. If the levels were different (a Dressage show with novice through Grand Prix or what have you) it would be unfair to judge the score of the novice horse against the score of the Grand Prix horse. Of course the Grand Prix horse is going to get the high point. The horses at the lower ranks would be losing at best, and at worst they would be win-feeding higher ranked horses.

If by highest overall score you mean cumulative point gain between all the classes, this is incredibly unfair to horses that specialize. They wouldn't realistically have a shot at getting a high point. However, I can see this feature being implemented for breed specific competitions (much like the AQHA) because then it would be constrained to horses that are jack of all trades. If this were the case, something similar would need to be applied for horses that are bred to specialize, like say real life jumpers, racers, dressage horses, endurance horses, log pullers, etc (the list is quite large).

This is a better system for several reasons. The first of which is that breed specific shows would be a lot more populated if they offered more levels or more disciplines. Right now, western pleasure paint horses might not compete in paint hunter shows, so there might only be five horses per show after the shows have been up for ages. When they finally run, it's not usually worth it because so few points will be gained. If shows acted like folders on a computer desktop and could hold a few classes, there would be more horses per show, and it would actually be worth it because of the possibility of getting more of a reward from high points. Beyond that, it would improve competitive breeding programs, because people would be more focused on beating competition across disciplines. As some disciplines have such weak showings right now with scores that cannot compete with other disciplines, it would encourage people who breed for those disciplines to work on creating more competitive horses that will win across everything.

I'm not sure I understand the math on this. Classes require a certain amount of horses to be entered before they run. Even if you put Hunter and Western Pleasure into the same show, if those Paints still fail to enter in Hunter it'll now hold the entire show up instead of just one class.

Again, I am also unsure of what you mean here with the high point and getting more points per show. It goes back to the quantity of horses in each class. If there's 2 in the Hunter and 10 in the Western Pleasure, the horse that wins Hunter shouldn't be getting points like it beat 11 horses. I can think of a ton of ways that this could be abused. If this isn't the case, then I don't see how this change would effect point gain in any way. There would still be 2 horses in Hunter and 10 in Western Pleasure, just like if they were single shows.

As for weak scores in disciplines, this change you're proposing could actually make that problem worse. Most people already do not specialize. They want to get titles and pretty breeder reports. Best way to get titles? Enter you horse in everything you can enter it in. They'll only make it to level 5 or so, sure, but just about anything can get a title via attrition eventually. This is the majority of the competition scene. Right now there are only 3 disciplines I do not have the absolute highest score in. The majority of my competition horses can only compete at level 10 because their PPS is so high. There are some other horses that compete at level 10, but the quantity is low. To fill out these level 10 shows we NEED a reason for people to specialize. If high point is implemented as you're suggesting, people will be even more inclined to just breed horses that are jack of all trades and stuck at level 5. You cannot have a horse that is amazing in all disciplines so "winning across everything" is not remotely feasible if the other horses out there are specialized. The reason most people do not notice this is because they are competing at sub-level 7.

I'm not sure that I fully understood the topicstarter, but the idea of one show with several disciplines is interesting because you can do eventing (dressage, cross country, show jumping) and similar things, that exist in reality.

[Bitapetrone]

I love that part of the idea. I'd really enjoy seeing Eventing as a whole where the winner is determined by the culmination of XC, Dressage and Stadium scores.