Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion

[BlackOak2]

Turkmenes offer high snowflake spread. But other than that, I haven't picked up on anything else they might offer. So anything you find out will add to what we just don't have.

[Silverine]

I knew about the snowflake spread. What surprised me was the retention of white from the other horse in the cross. Stuff like the Prze, Arabians, etc would greatly cut down on the amount of white on the foal but the Turkmene seemed to hold on to it. I don't know if that's because of other PATN genes that the Turkmene was hiding or something else.

[BlackOak2]

I knew about the snowflake spread. What surprised me was the retention of white from the other horse in the cross. Stuff like the Prze, Arabians, etc would greatly cut down on the amount of white on the foal but the Turkmene seemed to hold on to it. I don't know if that's because of other PATN genes that the Turkmene was hiding or something else.

That is extremely interesting. I've had a couple AC crosses that held up pretty good, but it was hit and miss and never full retention.
Is that the turkmene stud you posted? I can't use him, he'll offer too many genes I don't want into my herd.

[Silverine]

It wasn't full retention, but a lot more than with other breeds generally thought to be low on the PATN scale. And yes, he is one of the studs. The other is one I found at public stud: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/564000

This is one of the first gen Turkmene crosses:

[BlackOak2]

That is a fairly decent retention. That's about what I average on a good AC horse. But I don't get many of them. Of course, I'm also working with chestnuts and not blacks right now, so I don't know how my herd might produce if they were bays, like I want.

Turkmene genes are so difficult to correct or breed back out. They really seem to be a dominant breed. Belgians are much easier to breed with. You'll occasionally get a huge foal from mini horses, and that roman nose is a pain, but belgian genes are easier to make work for me.
I still have those high hips popping up in my herd and I only had one turk back near the beginning.

Midnight Sun looks like a very good trial mare. She's throwing good colored foals. Strong genes.

[Silverine]

He seemed to lose only in the areas that I tend to have trouble with - the hip and that slash along the stomach starting behind the elbow and moving up. And that's quite a bit of white for a non-red so I decided it was worthwhile to keep him. XD

I like the look of the Turkmenes so I don't mind using them. I'd prefer longer tails but I like the straight faces and lean bodies.

She's been pretty good - about the same as my other snowcaps. Here's her other foal from the same cross:

[BlackOak2]

I was looking at her other foals. They all seem to be decently similar in coverage.

I'm also newly realizing the snowflakes on the neck. They're on the underside. Most of my herd develops pattern white along the upperside of the neck. Do snowflakes seem like they're more willing to appear on the underside? Or is this perhaps just a fluke with Midnight Sun's foals?

[Silverine]

My herd doesn't really seem to have a preference for where the spots show up. Some go top, some go bottom, others take the whole neck. Have you ever had a horse with snowflakes on the ears? I have this mare that has some but she's the only one I've ever seen that does.

[Silverine]

I crossed the full siblings back together and got this:




I'm guessing that the majority of this color is leftover from Midnight Sun. But the fact that it all came back after only one generation makes me very happy. Other crosses I've done have had hard large blank patches for a few generations.

[BlackOak2]

I don't think I ever had a horse with snowflaked ears. I have a lot of skullcapped horses (white tops of heads) and I thought I had one with a spot on an ear, but I can't seem to find it.

I would agree with you that the fill-in on the foal is from leftover genes that each carried half of. Which I think means that she might have almost all of the genes she can have in those areas.