Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion

[BlackOak2]

By the way, I really like those white freckles. It's a little reminiscent of fewspot without being one.

That's what I thought! And her dad is a fewspot, so I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

Fewspot definitely shows it everywhere. It gives the frosted edges look and miniaturized, very few spots. I am apt to believe those white freckles are purely snowflake expression.

[Silverine]

If anyone wants a pure black horse with a nice blanket pattern with two different spot sizes, I have this boy:
Just born, I'd love to keep him because he's gorgeous but I have no more room for boys. Free to anyone that will use him in their program.
Gone.

[BlackOak2]

I was just re-reading this: 'Snowflake density genes - 2 genes/3 to 100 alleles ________________________________________________
1 - Only two genes for snowflake. Is one of them similar to a switch gene with 3 variations? Need opinions/experiments on this.'

And it occurred to me that you may be right. One gene might be a 3 variation gene. For instance, first variation may be snowflake only. Second variation might be snowflake that can express as a blanket also and the third variation is the ability to express alongside the blanket genes.
That may be the reason why some offspring from a snowflake & blanket parent and a blanket parent receive the blankets but no snowflakes.
I'd assume they probably work as an over-dominant gene, much like agouti does. Variation 1 can only express if there are no blanket genes and no other variation genes. Variation 2 expresses only if there are no blanket genes and no variation 3 genes, but overrides variation 1. And variation 3 overrides the first two variations and co-dominant alongside blanket genes.

That could explain why we have so many different examples of snowflakes that don't seem to follow to many rules.

That 'three alleles' always bothered me. Kept me second guessing what it could be related to.

[Silverine]

I realized that it might be a good idea to share the results of my AC experiments with everyone. I'm collecting them in this thread. I've set up all of the basic posts that I need so feel free to comment there as well as here.

Edit: I wanted to share with you guys - I just got my most consistent and farthest-reach white pattern on a black coat yet. Not related to my AC project (so no new blood), just brute-forcing trying to pile on the white.

This is the filly:



And the parents: So far I'm finding the "cup of water" analogy to be holding quite true. A lot of the time my horses with a lot of white seem to pass on about half of what they have so the foals end up about the same as the parents. But other times (like above) it's like one or both of them passes on a little more than half and so the white "leaks" out onto parts that it didn't cover before or to more completely cover areas that it only partially covered.

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[Totina]

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Very nice coverage of white, that head and neck seem to be a real problem for everyone with pretty much every combination we have tried so far. I think our only hope would be to find that PATN1 gene.

[Silverine]

..

Very nice coverage of white, that head and neck seem to be a real problem for everyone with pretty much every combination we have tried so far. I think our only hope would be to find that PATN1 gene.

My snowcaps have been slowly creeping forward, there and that right front leg. But my AC experiments are an effort to find that elusive PATN1 so hopefully I'll be able to help everyone out. XD

[BlackOak2]

From Silverine's experiments, we can add that Caspian's seem to offer additional white spread on the back of the thigh (really they seem to be the primary carrier of the PATN2 genes).

And also that NAB seems to offer white area spread on the chest directly behind the elbows.

But of course, still not confirmed.

[Silverine]

From Silverine's experiments, we can add that Caspian's seem to offer additional white spread on the back of the thigh (really they seem to be the primary carrier of the PATN2 genes).

And also that NAB seems to offer white area spread on the chest directly behind the elbows.

But of course, still not confirmed.

So if PATN1 does all over white, what exactly does PATN2 do? For that matter, what do the other PATNs in general do? Or is it just PATN1 and PATN2?

[BlackOak2]

So if PATN1 does all over white, what exactly does PATN2 do? For that matter, what do the other PATNs in general do?

Okay, this is based on real life (as a lot of our genes on the game are actually based on real life). We know that there is two primary pattern genes for the leopard complex. They are described as PATN1, pattern 1 which is leopard and near-leopard coverage. These horses are all spotted or almost all spotted (with missing areas usually in the same spots as fewspot shows color). PATN2 is described as all leopard complex genes that are NOT PATN1. So pattern 2 genes encompasses everything that is not true leopard or true near-leopard.

What we're working with (trying to get the white to spread all over) on this game is probably all PATN2 genes and not either one of the PATN1 genes. HOWEVER... since the PATN1 genes are so... difficult to find, it's much easier to force the PATN2 genes to spread over the entire body and really create the pseudo-leopard.

We also don't know how PATN1 reacts, what it really looks like and if it suddenly just produces a full-leopard or near-leopard when crossed with another complex carrier.

So perhaps we are, in fact working with PATN1 and in order to get the full leopard, we must make it.

They have pseudo-leopard horses in real life that look like regular leopard horses, but have been proven to only carry PATN2 genes. So (at least from what I've been learning online), they are not true leopards, hence the pseudo. And I do also think I read in real life that PATN1 genes are dominant over PATN2 genes. I do not know if that is also the same on here.

And this is why the leopard pattern study has returned full force!

[Silverine]

Interesting. Thanks for the info.