Pricing horses for sale

[ettromagnet]

Hi, I'm sure there's been other posts about this but I couldn't find any...
Basically, what's the recommended way to price horses? On the market I see a really wide range, usually 1k to 50k (I've seen some that are a million or something but I assume those are from people who don't reaaaallly actually want to sell the horse). Is training the biggest factor?

Just for my own reference what would be a good price for some of these horses??
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4374502

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397391

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4375260

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397406

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4377008

[BlackOak2]

Hi, I'm sure there's been other posts about this but I couldn't find any...
Basically, what's the recommended way to price horses? On the market I see a really wide range, usually 1k to 50k (I've seen some that are a million or something but I assume those are from people who don't reaaaallly actually want to sell the horse). Is training the biggest factor?

Just for my own reference what would be a good price for some of these horses??
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4374502

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397391

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4375260

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397406

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4377008

There are a number of topics that does cover this. However, since the market can fluctuate so greatly, especially around here, many of us are loath to offer an actual amount opinion. Specifically when a horse one day can be sold for a million and the very next, not find a buyer for a dollar.

So, here's some hints and tips to get you to pricing your horses better.

First and foremost, you should consider if your horses are good grinder fodder. If they meet minimal requirement for a grinder, then untrained (foals, but up to at least 3 years) can sell every day at 10k apiece. If you can train them up, they'll sell easily at 30k apiece.

Next is breed, purebreed and recipe breeds. If your horses are any one of these, the rarer, the better and also if they have higher HGP, lower COI (than what's already for sale) and if they're already from a competitive line, this will increase the price. Exponentially with if you have more of these things together. For instance, if you have a highly competitive Toric line that has HGP in the 50's and a COI under 10%... you could expect quite a bit of money from them. That said, there are reasons that the rarer breeds are still rare. It's because there are fewer people interested in them.

Any competitive lined foal will be much more valuable then one that comes from an unconfirmed competitive line.

Any foal from a record breaker, regardless of what record, is also considered extremely valuable, even more so if the siblings are confirmed competitive or record breakers themselves.

Finally, time spent on developing your line is also something that HWO players will find value in. If you've taken the time to make a line your own, making it what you want it to look like and then developing it into or toward a specific discipline line, even if they're not there yet, this work still has greater value (think more toward the 100k per foal, value).

Now. For the horses you offered for evaluation.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4374502 - Angel Fire. Age, fully trained, being an arabian, super high COI, off colors. This horse has most value as a grinder. Should be able to sell all day at least 50k and might sell well over 100k. Although being a champion does raise the price, the greater value is still likely as a grinder. I did not look back into heredity for grinder-line status.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397391 - Angel Wildflower. Age, some training, being an arabian, super high COI, off colors (this doesn't increase value, but may have more value for certain breeders). Son of the first. Depending on how the above stallion is as a grinder stud, it may certainly increase the price of the foals as an established grinder line. So this foal, as is, should sell all day between 10k and 20k. As long as he sells still young. Increasing training will increase price, but balancing increased price with still being young can be difficult, especially with little player skills learned. That said, a fully trained horse can still sell any day for 50k as long as they're somewhere under 12 years.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4375260 - Saint Cold Air. Thoroughbred, title, full training, super high COI, off colors. Being a Tb might increase value for the right person. But the things that work against him will be that he isn't from a confirmed competitive line and that his foals aren't confirmed competitive horses either. His value is at least grinder value, but there is more to this horse. You'll need to find the right buyer, but you should be able to get something more from him, outside of grinder value.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397406 - Pride Ridge. Same as the one above, with the exception of training and titling. So, at least grinder value. Not having Lp may increase this horse's value for some people. High COI may be a problem with those same people. It's just debatable on which side of the fence these people fall.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4377008 - Wildflower Love. Being pregnant to a horse that essentially guarantees a high HGP is a plus. You're essentially setting up a grinder line currently and there are enough people out there that are looking for high HGP arabians that there is a market for them. I'm not sure what that market is however. So, there could be more value seeking those buyers out rather than aiming for at least grinder lines.

There is value here, of course and by having these sorts of horses, you've set yourself up for good grinder fodder sales. That said, what I see from these horses is that you appear to be aiming currently for essentially 'pretty on paper' which means, high HGP, unusual colors but at the expense (or completely ignoring) COI and usefulness in competitions.

Don't feel poorly about my words, these horses have a lot of use and value even as they are. But your taste and project don't come out in these horses... yet. Yet.

[sunandshadow]

If you see a horse listed for a million, those are often a way to transfer money from one of a player's accounts to another. Apparently people are allowed to have 2 accounts on this game, or at least I read a post in the forums here that said so - I need to check whether that's still true. Having a second account can be very useful because you can put horses you don't want to age over there, including ones at a prime age for selling and ones you want to sell studdings from.

[brettdiesel]

Hi, I'm sure there's been other posts about this but I couldn't find any...
Basically, what's the recommended way to price horses? On the market I see a really wide range, usually 1k to 50k (I've seen some that are a million or something but I assume those are from people who don't reaaaallly actually want to sell the horse). Is training the biggest factor?

Just for my own reference what would be a good price for some of these horses??
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4374502 10-20k

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397391 9k

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4375260 half a mil

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397406 bout 7k

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4377008 would be about 5k

[ettromagnet]

Hi, I'm sure there's been other posts about this but I couldn't find any...
Basically, what's the recommended way to price horses? On the market I see a really wide range, usually 1k to 50k (I've seen some that are a million or something but I assume those are from people who don't reaaaallly actually want to sell the horse). Is training the biggest factor?

Just for my own reference what would be a good price for some of these horses??
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4374502

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397391

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4375260

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397406

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4377008

There are a number of topics that does cover this. However, since the market can fluctuate so greatly, especially around here, many of us are loath to offer an actual amount opinion. Specifically when a horse one day can be sold for a million and the very next, not find a buyer for a dollar.

So, here's some hints and tips to get you to pricing your horses better.

First and foremost, you should consider if your horses are good grinder fodder. If they meet minimal requirement for a grinder, then untrained (foals, but up to at least 3 years) can sell every day at 10k apiece. If you can train them up, they'll sell easily at 30k apiece.

Next is breed, purebreed and recipe breeds. If your horses are any one of these, the rarer, the better and also if they have higher HGP, lower COI (than what's already for sale) and if they're already from a competitive line, this will increase the price. Exponentially with if you have more of these things together. For instance, if you have a highly competitive Toric line that has HGP in the 50's and a COI under 10%... you could expect quite a bit of money from them. That said, there are reasons that the rarer breeds are still rare. It's because there are fewer people interested in them.

Any competitive lined foal will be much more valuable then one that comes from an unconfirmed competitive line.

Any foal from a record breaker, regardless of what record, is also considered extremely valuable, even more so if the siblings are confirmed competitive or record breakers themselves.

Finally, time spent on developing your line is also something that HWO players will find value in. If you've taken the time to make a line your own, making it what you want it to look like and then developing it into or toward a specific discipline line, even if they're not there yet, this work still has greater value (think more toward the 100k per foal, value).

Now. For the horses you offered for evaluation.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4374502 - Angel Fire. Age, fully trained, being an arabian, super high COI, off colors. This horse has most value as a grinder. Should be able to sell all day at least 50k and might sell well over 100k. Although being a champion does raise the price, the greater value is still likely as a grinder. I did not look back into heredity for grinder-line status.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397391 - Angel Wildflower. Age, some training, being an arabian, super high COI, off colors (this doesn't increase value, but may have more value for certain breeders). Son of the first. Depending on how the above stallion is as a grinder stud, it may certainly increase the price of the foals as an established grinder line. So this foal, as is, should sell all day between 10k and 20k. As long as he sells still young. Increasing training will increase price, but balancing increased price with still being young can be difficult, especially with little player skills learned. That said, a fully trained horse can still sell any day for 50k as long as they're somewhere under 12 years.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4375260 - Saint Cold Air. Thoroughbred, title, full training, super high COI, off colors. Being a Tb might increase value for the right person. But the things that work against him will be that he isn't from a confirmed competitive line and that his foals aren't confirmed competitive horses either. His value is at least grinder value, but there is more to this horse. You'll need to find the right buyer, but you should be able to get something more from him, outside of grinder value.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4397406 - Pride Ridge. Same as the one above, with the exception of training and titling. So, at least grinder value. Not having Lp may increase this horse's value for some people. High COI may be a problem with those same people. It's just debatable on which side of the fence these people fall.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/4377008 - Wildflower Love. Being pregnant to a horse that essentially guarantees a high HGP is a plus. You're essentially setting up a grinder line currently and there are enough people out there that are looking for high HGP arabians that there is a market for them. I'm not sure what that market is however. So, there could be more value seeking those buyers out rather than aiming for at least grinder lines.

There is value here, of course and by having these sorts of horses, you've set yourself up for good grinder fodder sales. That said, what I see from these horses is that you appear to be aiming currently for essentially 'pretty on paper' which means, high HGP, unusual colors but at the expense (or completely ignoring) COI and usefulness in competitions.

Don't feel poorly about my words, these horses have a lot of use and value even as they are. But your taste and project don't come out in these horses... yet. Yet.

Thank you!!! This is very helpful.
I don't feel poorly at all, I feel pretty new to the game so I feel like going for high HGP is a good goal... and of course I like cool-looking horses too... I only recently figured out how competitions work haha, and I mostly just enter horses so I can get some money.... Would you have any advice for improving 'usefulness in competitions'?

With regards to COI, it's just really hard - maybe impossible - to find high HGP studs or buyable horses with under 100% COI (at least for arabians). But also since there don't seem to be consequences for inbreeding I feel like I do kind of ignore it....

[BlackOak2]

Thank you!!! This is very helpful.
I don't feel poorly at all, I feel pretty new to the game so I feel like going for high HGP is a good goal... and of course I like cool-looking horses too... I only recently figured out how competitions work haha, and I mostly just enter horses so I can get some money.... Would you have any advice for improving 'usefulness in competitions'?

With regards to COI, it's just really hard - maybe impossible - to find high HGP studs or buyable horses with under 100% COI (at least for arabians). But also since there don't seem to be consequences for inbreeding I feel like I do kind of ignore it....

Oh good! Sometimes when players come from other games, they have that knee-yank reaction and are a bit sensitive and that's directly because other communities can be just such awful places.

Okay.

High HGP is a good, solid first goal to work with. It teaches you in rather blatant fashion, how to work with and breed for it. So it's very useful, even if most of the uses from highest HGP horses, is grinder. But that's also a lucrative and easy path to take for a newbie as well. Unlike other games, grinders (aka, geldings and sterilized mares) have a solid place and a money-making niche. Surprisingly, this is the only game that's found such a use with as much emphasis on it.

Usefulness in competitions comes down, not to training an individual horse (although I'm sure you understand that path), but in the development toward a discipline for your line of horses. With high HGP horses, when you start working them into a discipline, the first thing you'll notice, is that the HGP will fall toward the mid to lower 60's (60,000) area. This you should expect and it will work toward the benefit of your line. Most of our hosted (player made) competitions and a greater number of the records are performed by horses with HGP's in the high 50's to low 60's.

Since you're herd is already high HGP, I'd suggest that you choose which discipline you want them to be for, instead of utilizing them in a discipline they're already body-form and temperament-born into. (Endurance works well for arabians in your state and racing disciplines and saddleseat for the Tb's)

When you've decided which discipline you want (logging, marathon driving, reining, etc), take stock of your herd and first see if there's any talents from any of your current horses. Local shows are useful here, even for the untrained. But keep in mind, untrained will have much poorer and much more wider ranges of scores.

The basic way to breed for a discipline is to take your best two scorers and breed them together and then repeat until they become competitive and eventually they'll close in on those records.

COI, to date, can be useful and harmful. Not in the basic 'inbreeding creates ugliness' types of outcomes, but because by using it intelligently, you can help to set and breed out the genes (stats, colors, etc.) that you don't want, but it can also artificially plateau your bloodline by breeding out the upward growth. They won't ever stop moving either upward or downward, but the smaller ranges of those genes you have, the less movement you'll have as well. Great for setting certain genes, like high speed stats. It'll limit the downward growth to minimal levels, but if you have a low speed stat and you want to make it higher, it'll take many, many more generations to see much upward movement at all.

COI will become a problem soon enough. Learning how to work with it will help you when it does become a problem. However, if admin offers us the same upgrades as they've had in the past, COI negatives (mutations and poor health, etc.) will be on new blood and not on old. So as long as you're breeding to stock that is from only old lines (from before the release) then you'll have a greater time limit to get your COI under control.
That said, admin has also stated that although we don't have a hard line for COI negatives, it is suggested to us to keep COI somewhere under 40%. Actually this area is quite lenient on us. In my ongoing study (not yet published), although COI jumps around quite readily, it takes two generations of breeding full siblings together to get to the 50% mark. Although this seems like a lot, this is breeding 0% COI parents together. Breeding those full siblings together. The resulting full siblings together and then for one additional time. Half siblings and other related family members will take longer than this.

Keep an eye on COI, so that you can learn how it's manipulated and handled, but for now, the only impacts will be to utilizing it to your benefit, setting genes or to your determent, hitting an artificial plateau.

For both Tb's and arabs, you'll be a bit pressed to find lower COI's (arabs are awful with this). I think, at this point, because of their usefulness as grinder fodder, all the high HGP arabs are likely related to each other. So no matter which arab you want to incorporate into your breeding program, if it's high HGP, it's likely related. That's not a bad thing. But it can become a problem when trying to transition a grinder-type horse into the foundation for a competition line. In this area, grades may be your way out. Grades are mutt-horses but they can have much lower COI and if you're careful about the body form and competition ability, with just a couple generations, you could theoretically fall into a very competitive line. They'll be half- and part-breds and maybe even a few mixed-breds, but it's not hard to breed back into pure.

Competition development, however, is a very fickle thing. You may need to make a choice between maintaining your breed or maintaining your competitive blood. But with enough work and good culling practices and keeping hard-eyes on what you're producing, it's a very doable goal.