Realistic Exmoor Ponies - A Comprehensive Standard

[Alice Keegan]

NL is a close-fail for all of them (on the negative end).

Revisiting my stats, having low necks are also to be expected with foundation stock. From my earlier analysis, it looks like from the 50 prze's and 50 tarpans I pulled, they both had a range of 0-2 for NL from what I sample. That said, I know I've pulled Tarpans from the AC that had a NL of 3, but that seems to be more rare.

I'll be updating my standards to reflect this!

And Croup, for all. But I disagree slightly with the Croup. At least for HWO, their preferred (or more preferred real life) competitions suggests driving disciplines (not exclusively, obviously), that would affect strength and agility for the croup. Sitting on the left side of the center was, at least in my mind, the better setting for the real life preferred disciplines. However, left side of center and not fully on the left (or further on the left), would allow for the other potential disciplines like trail (agility). I suppose my preferred number for Croup would be 3-4 area. Mm... just a matter of opinion, at this point. And since you're doing realistic, somethings are projected to be different for the sheer fact that this is a game and certain things may need to change in order for the game's parts to function correctly and well with everything else.

I think that's the only one you'll see me disagreeing on. So that's good news.

I can see where you're coming from if you breed to maximize for sport. My perspective is that, while Exmoor Ponies are used often used for driving they weren't created as honed competition horses, being a more primitive breed. I want my standard to reflect the real ponies as closely as possible, even if that means they aren't as optimized for competition.

I would never begrudge anyone who wants to create Exmoor Ponies more optimized for driving, but I feel that would be better suited for a "Competition Exmoor" registry and outside the scope of this program's goals.

That being said, I do allow a variation of +/- 1 from the range standard for minimum approvals, so if you want to be registered in REP and *also* give your Exmoors more competition optimization, shooting for a CH score of 4 would allow the pony to be REP Approved (as long as its confo is otherwise good) and give a little more uphill build for sport.

[Alice Keegan]

Wanted to put the conformation analysis on what I consider the best foal from my most recent season (so far) — mainly because I'm really happy with the luck I got with this colt! He wouldn't be eligible due to being only half Exmoor Pony and having a coronet, even if he did meet requirements, but he's definitely a step in the right direction for my program!

ECE's Perfect Retribution F → 3 | 5 | 8 | 4 M → 3 | 1 | 5 | 5 E → 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4

Judging: F =||| → Meets excellent standard. M = -2 || -1 | → WSA too upright. E = ||||| -1 → Meets approval standard.

[BlackOak2]

I can see where you're coming from if you breed to maximize for sport. My perspective is that, while Exmoor Ponies are used often used for driving they weren't created as honed competition horses, being a more primitive breed. I want my standard to reflect the real ponies as closely as possible, even if that means they aren't as optimized for competition.

I would never begrudge anyone who wants to create Exmoor Ponies more optimized for driving, but I feel that would be better suited for a "Competition Exmoor" registry and outside the scope of this program's goals.

That being said, I do allow a variation of +/- 1 from the range standard for minimum approvals, so if you want to be registered in REP and *also* give your Exmoors more competition optimization, shooting for a CH score of 4 would allow the pony to be REP Approved (as long as its confo is otherwise good) and give a little more uphill build for sport.

Nice colt you had!

I suppose, if you want to be exact about it, you should determine if you want to reflect the primitive, wild exmoor, that's going to be different from the tamed or domesticated stock we use.

Wild exmoors are going to have characteristics that reflect the environment they live in. For example, if they're habitat is mostly swamp (I haven't looked up their primary wild environment), then they'll likely have larger, flatter hooves with strength overcompensating and less speed. However, they're also likely to have a small, lightweight body. All of these things would help them 'float' on top of the swamp and have less chances of sinking in.

If we would take these wilds from their home and use them in competitions... such a body form might be best suited for... hmm...

...

okay, I don't think I gave enough info, but for at least the example, I'll do the eye-look for discipline.
Maybe poles, barrels or working ranch.

Ack. That was a horrible sample. -_-

I suppose it really doesn't matter which version of the horse you're looking at. In the end, there can be differences in opinions. Especially when you already went to so much trouble to mock-up such a well-thought-out spreadsheet and map for the ideal horse.

[Alice Keegan]

Nice colt you had!

Thanks! Lol, definitely lucked out with that colt (at least conformation-wise, his stats are bit abysmal ). Let's hope he produces well!

I suppose, if you want to be exact about it, you should determine if you want to reflect the primitive, wild exmoor, that's going to be different from the tamed or domesticated stock we use.

Wild exmoors are going to have characteristics that reflect the environment they live in. For example, if they're habitat is mostly swamp (I haven't looked up their primary wild environment), then they'll likely have larger, flatter hooves with strength overcompensating and less speed. However, they're also likely to have a small, lightweight body. All of these things would help them 'float' on top of the swamp and have less chances of sinking in.

If we would take these wilds from their home and use them in competitions... such a body form might be best suited for... hmm...

...

okay, I don't think I gave enough info, but for at least the example, I'll do the eye-look for discipline.
Maybe poles, barrels or working ranch.

Ack. That was a horrible sample. -_-

I suppose it really doesn't matter which version of the horse you're looking at. In the end, there can be differences in opinions.

You got me curious, so I got on reading tangent on Wiki and apparently the status of Exmoor Ponies as primitive horses is contested — very curious, indeed! Regardless, it looks like Exmoor Ponies were originally used for cart-horses, agriculture, and mining, with most of their use in recent times being leisure including showing (as vague as that is), long-distance riding, driving, and equine agility.

I do feel my breed standard is realistic and accurate to the point where I don't want to change the standard... HOWEVER! I am thinking about changing the approval tolerances as a compromise. Here's specifically what I have in mind:

REP Approved - Seven out of fourteen measurements fall within established ranges. Two measurements may fall within two deviations from the established ranges, but the rest must be within a deviation of one from the established ranges.

[New addition] REP Good - Thirteen out of fourteen measurements fall within established ranges. The measurement that falls out of range may not deviate more than two from the range.

REP Excellent, REP Exceptional, and REP Distinguished remain unchanged, but I'll list them here for convenience:
REP Excellent - All measurements fall within acceptable ranges for Exmoor Pony conformation.
REP Exceptional - All measurements are within acceptable ranges and fall within one of the ideal Exmoor Pony conformation.
REP Distinguished - Perfect ponies that match the requirements for the ideal Exmoor Pony conformation.


What do you think? Does this seem like a good compromise?

Especially when you already went to so much trouble to mock-up such a well-thought-out spreadsheet and map for the ideal horse.

Thanks for the compliment!

[BlackOak2]

Nice colt you had!

Thanks! Lol, definitely lucked out with that colt (at least conformation-wise, his stats are bit abysmal ). Let's hope he produces well!

I suppose, if you want to be exact about it, you should determine if you want to reflect the primitive, wild exmoor, that's going to be different from the tamed or domesticated stock we use.

Wild exmoors are going to have characteristics that reflect the environment they live in. For example, if they're habitat is mostly swamp (I haven't looked up their primary wild environment), then they'll likely have larger, flatter hooves with strength overcompensating and less speed. However, they're also likely to have a small, lightweight body. All of these things would help them 'float' on top of the swamp and have less chances of sinking in.

If we would take these wilds from their home and use them in competitions... such a body form might be best suited for... hmm...

...

okay, I don't think I gave enough info, but for at least the example, I'll do the eye-look for discipline.
Maybe poles, barrels or working ranch.

Ack. That was a horrible sample. -_-

I suppose it really doesn't matter which version of the horse you're looking at. In the end, there can be differences in opinions.

You got me curious, so I got on reading tangent on Wiki and apparently the status of Exmoor Ponies as primitive horses is contested — very curious, indeed! Regardless, it looks like Exmoor Ponies were originally used for cart-horses, agriculture, and mining, with most of their use in recent times being leisure including showing (as vague as that is), long-distance riding, driving, and equine agility.

That's not the only breed (if memory serves) that's contested whether it's a true wild or not. And even on here, I remember some discussions whether a particular breed is, ever was truly a wild horse breed, or whether it was a tamed breed that just spent most of it's life as wild-like (arabians are a good example of this, as are angus cattle).

The truth is likely that they originated from a wild breed that no longer exists and either was transported (by early man) into the area or is the remnant population descended from that wild horse that was nearly wiped out and isolated by early man.

It is interesting, what you found... unfortunately, it reads like a lot of pony-style breeds 'cart-horses, agriculture and mining'. And of course, finishes with the same type of vagueness as a lot of breeds have today 'leisure including showing'. *sigh* Are we really this wishy-washy anymore?? Or are we just hay-bent on making things into 'can do just about anything'?

I do feel my breed standard is realistic and accurate to the point where I don't want to change the standard... HOWEVER! I am thinking about changing the approval tolerances as a compromise. Here's specifically what I have in mind:

REP Approved - Seven out of fourteen measurements fall within established ranges. Two measurements may fall within two deviations from the established ranges, but the rest must be within a deviation of one from the established ranges.

[New addition] REP Good - Thirteen out of fourteen measurements fall within established ranges. The measurement that falls out of range may not deviate more than two from the range.

REP Excellent, REP Exceptional, and REP Distinguished remain unchanged, but I'll list them here for convenience:
REP Excellent - All measurements fall within acceptable ranges for Exmoor Pony conformation.
REP Exceptional - All measurements are within acceptable ranges and fall within one of the ideal Exmoor Pony conformation.
REP Distinguished - Perfect ponies that match the requirements for the ideal Exmoor Pony conformation.


What do you think? Does this seem like a good compromise?

I'm not sure you need it, but considering there is quite a far stretch between the parent breeds and the exmoor registry (noting specifically that some of them, the parent breeds don't even carry... not just conformationally, but the brown aguoti as well, which doesn't actually weigh here in this list, considering it's a conformation list, but anyway), having a go-between like this will allow people to gain access even with rather unfortunate, but still close, individuals.

Even if you just had... how does that knab registry suggest it?
*goes hunting for some information*
Right. They're introduced into the Annex section. To keep it short and basically easy to understand, mares that for certain reasons can't be registered as a Knab, can have their descendants become registered knabs, by breeding to approved stallions for three generations. In this case, for the exmoors, your compromise is essentially creating an Annex section, where horses that aren't registry exmoors, can still be posted as Annex individuals.

Need, aside, I think it's an acceptable compromise to offer players a half-way-there goal.

[Alice Keegan]

ECE's Mystique F → 4 | 4 | 6 | 4 M → 3 | 1 | 4 | 5 E → 6 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 5 | 2

Judging: Out of Standard F =||-1| → Meets good standard. M = -2 || -3 | → RC too shallow. E =|| -2 | -3 || -3 → SP too backward, CH too low.

Notes: 5* Exmoor High COI Bay Dun Pangare w/ Minimal Markings Ear Length - Too Long Mane Length - TBD Mane Thickness - TBD Tail Length - TBD Tail Thickness - Too Thin Tail Height - Low Feathering - None (TBD)

Getting so close! Hoping to use her to bring my mixes up to pure Exmoor while making it easier to improve conformation.

[BlackOak2]

I'm liquidating my stock. If you want to snag any, this'll be your only chance. They're being placed up at 1k apiece. Let me know if you want any not already posted.

[Kingsley]

Hey there. I have some varied EP stock in my Coastal Plains (Revenant) account. If any of them would be useful to you, I'd gladly let you borrow them for a breeding or two, free of charge (or however low is required for sales--$1?). I wanted to work towards realistic EPs but they were lower on my breeding goals list than a few current projects I'm working on. Any of my stallions that have good traits, I'd also put them at stud if possible. I have some sooty dapple Andalusians in particular I was hoping to use for that future EP project.