What colour is this filly?

[Stable_Of_Champions]

Hello! I have this beautiful little thoroughbred filly that I had listed as flea bitten but just realized that the spots look more like a blanket. I don't know if anyone knows a specific colour that I could label this horse as, but I could use the help if anyone has the time to help me Thank you!
Link to her profile: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3439208

[lrc]

Wella as i see it you made the right chocice for Flee bitten but could also be a applosa.

[Iris Rock Stables]

Hello! I have this beautiful little thoroughbred filly that I had listed as flea bitten but just realized that the spots look more like a blanket. I don't know if anyone knows a specific colour that I could label this horse as, but I could use the help if anyone has the time to help me Thank you!
Link to her profile: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3439208

It could possibly be both flea bitten and appaloosa in your foal but we would have to see in the future of what she's going to look like.

[EclipticEnd]

I had one similar to this!

The dad is a Gold Champagne with Blanket Appaloosa patterning and the front legs are a small presentation of Tobiano. He also has Snowflakes along his flank. He also has two Tiger Eye genes which is why his eyes are light, I believe.

The mom is also Champagne and if you look closely at the outer front leg you can see a Tobiano marking. She might have one Tiger Eye gene from her dad, whom she got the leg marking from. I'm not exactly sure what Champagne she is; they've always been rather tricky for me, and if she has Silver then that can skew the entire color. She does have a Silver Dapple in her ancestry, so that might be the case, and a bunch of Pseudo Whites are there as well. You could probably get away with just calling her a Pseudo White and being done with it, but that'll leave you wondering. Maybe someone with more experience could shed some light.

Your foal is a Silver Champagne. I'm pretty sure the mom passed that down. You can see dapples on the foal and the foal's fully grown sibling from her (No Honest Word) if you look very closely. The eyes are dark, indicating a lack of two cream genes or a cream/pearl mix gene. The freckles on the nose and around the eyes are somewhat pale, which indicates she might have a single cream. Note that your foal inherited one Tiger Eye gene from the dad (if I'm right and he has those) and will have a chance to pass it to future foals. She has a Blanket Appaloosa pattern along with Snowflakes on her neck. She's got the Tobiano front legs as well.

Because of her Silver coloration, I'm not certain on her base color. I know there are others who are more knowledgeable in that kind of thing. I'm going to say a Silver Champagne with Blanket and Tobiano. If she does indeed have one cream then she'll be one of the following: Classic Cream, Sable Cream, or Amber Cream. Silver doesn't show on chestnut, so she cannot be a Gold Cream. I want to say that she might be a black base, which means my guess is Silver Classic Cream Blanket Tobiano, or Silver Classic Cream Pintaloosa.

[Stable_Of_Champions]

Thank you all so much for your help with this!

[Malakai10]

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Both Appaloosa and Pintaloosa are breeds, not colours. Spotted colourations is called leopard complex or, well, spotted. Pinto is the breed, the colour is paint; however, the only paints we have in the game are tobianos.

~IHF~ I Think I See You is a Tiger Eye Tobiano Gold Champagne Blanket. The horse does have snowflakes but I've never seen a spotted horse without them in this game so I wouldn't bother adding that to the colour label.

Tiger eye is recessive except when paired with champagne - you only need one copy of tiger eye for it to express on champagne, thus the mare does not carry it (and her sire is heterozygous for tiger eye.) ~IHF~ Overdrive is so pale that I'm inclined to call her a double dilute and the darkness of the mane makes me think black base and, given that the base of the tail is darker, silver. Given that her dark eyes, it's definitely not double cream + champagne or cream-pearl + champagne. I'm inclined to say Tobiano Silver Black Pearl Champagne however BlackOak is far better at identifying double and triple dilutes than I am so I'll ping them.

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SOC - Call Me Maybe looks like Tobiano Silver Black Pearl Champagne Blanket.

[Stable_Of_Champions]

Thank you so much!

[BlackOak2]

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.

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Both Appaloosa and Pintaloosa are breeds, not colours. Spotted colourations is called leopard complex or, well, spotted. Pinto is the breed, the colour is paint; however, the only paints we have in the game are tobianos.

~IHF~ I Think I See You is a Tiger Eye Tobiano Gold Champagne Blanket. The horse does have snowflakes but I've never seen a spotted horse without them in this game so I wouldn't bother adding that to the colour label.

Tiger eye is recessive except when paired with champagne - you only need one copy of tiger eye for it to express on champagne, thus the mare does not carry it (and her sire is heterozygous for tiger eye.) ~IHF~ Overdrive is so pale that I'm inclined to call her a double dilute and the darkness of the mane makes me think black base and, given that the base of the tail is darker, silver. Given that her dark eyes, it's definitely not double cream + champagne or cream-pearl + champagne. I'm inclined to say Tobiano Silver Black Pearl Champagne however BlackOak is far better at identifying double and triple dilutes than I am so I'll ping them.

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SOC - Call Me Maybe looks like Tobiano Silver Black Pearl Champagne Blanket.

Double and triple dilutes stump us all at times. I don't have much trouble with any sort of double, but triples I usually turn it over to someone like Silverine for further clarification. There are those that actually work with triple dilutes regularly and have more of an eye about it.

As far as 'pintaloosa' is concerned, there have been debates on whether it's a breed or a color and I did find it before, but cannot find it now.
It was determined that it was both with a caveat.
The appaloosa breed itself has very distant origins. There have been cave paintings of spotted horses all over the place, distinctly both in Europe and North America (and before they were brought over by boat). The more modern appaloosa breed that we now that was 'born' in North America today is generally (and debatably) accepted to've descended from spanish introduces stocks (including some others).
Today, the international registry of the 'Pintaloosa' reports that the horse is a 'pinto' colored horse crossed with an appaloosa registered horse. But that's not all that it says. (source: https://ipshr.com/RegistrationCategorie ... ration.htm)

A PINTALOOSA shall be defined as any horse which is the result of breeding a Pinto or Paint horse to an Appaloosa horse. The pintaloosa horse may exhibit only pinto or appaloosa markings, both types of markings, or no markings at all. IPSHR requires proof of appaloosa lineage if appaloosa coloring (Lp or PATN) is not visible.

It's also defined that a 'pinto' is a color registry and not a genetic-breed registry. (source: http://afs.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/pinto) However, in 1965 (in the US at least) many of these 'paint' horse (color registries) combined to create the American Paint Horse registry and became a genetic-breed registry. (source: https://neeness.com/is-a-paint-horse-a-breed-or-color/)
What this means is that a breed begins with a color or an ability or a use and eventually moves from these rather ambiguous style registries where they accept 'any' animal that can perform or otherwise show what the registry needs and eventually evolves into a genetic-breed registry, where only be breeding to an already registered horse, can one gain access (or eventually gain access) into that breed registry.

So, a pintaloosa is both a color AND a breed. And although the international registry only accepts such horses are bred to a registered (genetic-breed registry) Appaloosa Breed, at least half of that horse's parentage can be strictly from a color-registry and not a breed-registry.

But, do we really need to split hairs in this?
I usually make a distinction by using capitol letters to define color versus breed. Such as a paint horse or a Paint horse. I didn't do so in this write-up though.

One thing to keep in mind, however, is that an appaloosa is a distinct breed and horses [otherwise] that have Lp markings are leopard horses and not appaloosa horses.

*********
As an interesting note, we are supposed to be able to have snowflakes separately from Lp, but nobody that I've heard has tackled this trial yet and I haven't heard of any success. So although we should be able to have it, we don't know for certain.
********
Now to move onward to the color of the horse in question... -_-

Okay, from what I'm seeing, this horse is in possession of one cream gene paired with a champagne gene with silver all on black. Alongside this there's also a blanket and tobiano.

Perhaps I'm wrong. But I don't think so. So... Silver Dapple Classic Cream blanket tobiano, or something to that extent.

A triple cream would be blinding white on this horse, because of the silver paired with black.
Would look a lot more like this horse: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3402247
Plus I don't see much indication of pearl on the sire side and only cream on the dame.
That's my opinion.

**Edited to add the pinto source... did not correct any spelling or grammatical errors, apologies for those. A little tired today.

[Malakai10]

Both Appaloosa and Pintaloosa are breeds, not colours. Spotted colourations is called leopard complex or, well, spotted. Pinto is the breed, the colour is paint; however, the only paints we have in the game are tobianos.

~IHF~ I Think I See You is a Tiger Eye Tobiano Gold Champagne Blanket. The horse does have snowflakes but I've never seen a spotted horse without them in this game so I wouldn't bother adding that to the colour label.

Tiger eye is recessive except when paired with champagne - you only need one copy of tiger eye for it to express on champagne, thus the mare does not carry it (and her sire is heterozygous for tiger eye.) ~IHF~ Overdrive is so pale that I'm inclined to call her a double dilute and the darkness of the mane makes me think black base and, given that the base of the tail is darker, silver. Given that her dark eyes, it's definitely not double cream + champagne or cream-pearl + champagne. I'm inclined to say Tobiano Silver Black Pearl Champagne however BlackOak is far better at identifying double and triple dilutes than I am so I'll ping them.


SOC - Call Me Maybe looks like Tobiano Silver Black Pearl Champagne Blanket.

Double and triple dilutes stump us all at times. I don't have much trouble with any sort of double, but triples I usually turn it over to someone like Silverine for further clarification. There are those that actually work with triple dilutes regularly and have more of an eye about it.

As far as 'pintaloosa' is concerned, there have been debates on whether it's a breed or a color and I did find it before, but cannot find it now.
It was determined that it was both with a caveat.
The appaloosa breed itself has very distant origins. There have been cave paintings of spotted horses all over the place, distinctly both in Europe and North America (and before they were brought over by boat). The more modern appaloosa breed that we now that was 'born' in North America today is generally (and debatably) accepted to've descended from spanish introduces stocks (including some others).
Today, the international registry of the 'Pintaloosa' reports that the horse is a 'pinto' colored horse crossed with an appaloosa registered horse. But that's not all that it says. (source: https://ipshr.com/RegistrationCategorie ... ration.htm)

A PINTALOOSA shall be defined as any horse which is the result of breeding a Pinto or Paint horse to an Appaloosa horse. The pintaloosa horse may exhibit only pinto or appaloosa markings, both types of markings, or no markings at all. IPSHR requires proof of appaloosa lineage if appaloosa coloring (Lp or PATN) is not visible.

It's also defined that a 'pinto' is a color registry and not a genetic-breed registry. (source: http://afs.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/pinto) However, in 1965 (in the US at least) many of these 'paint' horse (color registries) combined to create the American Paint Horse registry and became a genetic-breed registry. (source: https://neeness.com/is-a-paint-horse-a-breed-or-color/)
What this means is that a breed begins with a color or an ability or a use and eventually moves from these rather ambiguous style registries where they accept 'any' animal that can perform or otherwise show what the registry needs and eventually evolves into a genetic-breed registry, where only be breeding to an already registered horse, can one gain access (or eventually gain access) into that breed registry.

So, a pintaloosa is both a color AND a breed. And although the international registry only accepts such horses are bred to a registered (genetic-breed registry) Appaloosa Breed, at least half of that horse's parentage can be strictly from a color-registry and not a breed-registry.

But, do we really need to split hairs in this?
I usually make a distinction by using capitol letters to define color versus breed. Such as a paint horse or a Paint horse. I didn't do so in this write-up though.

One thing to keep in mind, however, is that an appaloosa is a distinct breed and horses [otherwise] that have Lp markings are leopard horses and not appaloosa horses.

*********
As an interesting note, we are supposed to be able to have snowflakes separately from Lp, but nobody that I've heard has tackled this trial yet and I haven't heard of any success. So although we should be able to have it, we don't know for certain.
********
Now to move onward to the color of the horse in question... -_-

Okay, from what I'm seeing, this horse is in possession of one cream gene paired with a champagne gene with silver all on black. Alongside this there's also a blanket and tobiano.

Perhaps I'm wrong. But I don't think so. So... Silver Dapple Classic Cream blanket tobiano, or something to that extent.

A triple cream would be blinding white on this horse, because of the silver paired with black.
Would look a lot more like this horse: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3402247
Plus I don't see much indication of pearl on the sire side and only cream on the dame.
That's my opinion.

**Edited to add the pinto source... did not correct any spelling or grammatical errors, apologies for those. A little tired today.

I mixed up paint and pinto again then didn't I

Colours and breeds being the same thing is so frustrating (and colour breeds, urg) I personally find the distinction between a colour and breed to be important because it just makes communication easier... and also because it just Frustrates me...... mostly because it just frustrates me (and I would Cry if someone called a knapstrupper or basotho pony an appaloosa because it was spotted)

... i forgot single cream was a thing that does seem more likely than pearl

[BlackOak2]

I mixed up paint and pinto again then didn't I

Colours and breeds being the same thing is so frustrating (and colour breeds, urg) I personally find the distinction between a colour and breed to be important because it just makes communication easier... and also because it just Frustrates me...... mostly because it just frustrates me (and I would Cry if someone called a knapstrupper or basotho pony an appaloosa because it was spotted)

... i forgot single cream was a thing that does seem more likely than pearl

It appears so, but it's no big deal. Before I started this game, I was pretty much: Red = Chestnut, White is gray, unless it has white skin & everything else was either bay or buckskin or palomino. There was pretty much nothing else. Unless it was looking like a cow, then it was paint or dalmatian spotted it was leopard. (I did have that last one right at least )
This game has corrected a LOT of my fallacies.

An interesting sidenote, is when I was looking at where leopard may have first originated, I found that one of the original breeds that were devoted for the spots, the tiger, disappeared and that the knabstrupper almost died out and opened their books to allow any spotty horse in. At least that's what my memory tells me now. It's been a number of years since I looked at leopard for my tarpans.
Things might've changed since then though.

On another interesting side note, painted markings and spots do appear to be one of the first markings that start appearing on many coats during the domestication process. Which I thought was of particular and peculiar interest. But if that's just a happenstance during those particular studies or whether that's something that's actually linked in some way to the domestication process and the culling/keeping procedures of it... who knows?

Oh... and I just got a deja vu that we've spoken about this before!