When Talking About Purebreds How Picky Are You?

[Warband]

Hey Guys,

So I started breeding a little more selectively again and I actually have a question/Debate for everyone.

How picky are you guys when it comes to the height of a purebred horse? I've been running into an issue with my breeding and I don't know if I want to be so selective that those really high GP horses get rehomed for being .01 too tall for the bred.

I've been breeding with the baladi's now and something I keep running into is my main male is 15HH, .1 from being maxed height. His foals are now going over the 15.1 HH, or below the 14HH for the breed. I just rehomed a 56k GP one for not reaching that 5* purebred because of his height. I wouldn't mind exactly, but then I wonder the more and more I get that HH to increase or decrease I move farther and farther away from the purebred requirement. Such that I could potientially have a 20HH baladi without crossing it with a draft, or vise versa a pony cross.
Now this could extend to the other four as well.

I want to be able to breed great horses of a purebred lineage as far as I can go. Yet, also be able to sale them if and when I wanted too.

So I guess my biggest question is, What attributes or pasts of a horses history do you consider a negative when buying a horse?

Like for me one of my things used to be COI till I realized it was more neutral, and I could at some point lower it if I wanted too. Mainly because the more difficult it is to breed a horse, the higher the COI is going to be as it would be harder to add in more lines of purebreds and unneeded crossing.

Now, When I buy a purebred, I check back in the horses linage to check to see if there was an unneeded cross added in. (mostly towards foundation(arab, NAB), and first cross purebreds(Baladi's, Ext,) If after about 10 generations I see nothing, I conclude it is probably safe to go ahead and add a horse to the breeding program.

Sizes, has never been an issue with me, but I also like the idea of one day maybe selling off stock so I try to keep to the 5* as best as possible. However, I am seriously considering dropping the HH Requirement of purebreds if I find people don't care as much.

I guess my second question is how to handle COI when you either,
Have A really high GP that breeding to foundations could really hurt GP gains,
The current stocks build and attributes are where you want it to have, and foundations or adding another horse could alter those attributes.
It becomes then which is worse COI being really high, or risking changing the progress you have made in GP/Appearance.
Is there even a way to Reduce COI without adding in new bloodlines?

W.B

[BlackOak2]

Hey Guys,
So I started breeding...
W.B

Another thing you should keep in mind... When you begin to develop high COI, and you start breeding... when you find your horses are growing noticeably shorter or noticeably taller, that high COI means that you have successfully inbred a gene that actually TELLS the foals to grow too tall or too short. High COI can be a good thing, IF you have Desired traits you want to fully establish and 'breed true'. However, it can also be a bad thing, meaning it can fully establish a trait you Don't want.

As for being purebred and holding to breed standards. That's what it's really about. A purebred must hold to breed standards, unless you choose to make it different from that breed standard. For instance... There are a couple breeders (from last I noticed) that are attempting to breed miniature arabians. Arabians are not tiny horses, according to their breed standard, yet to fall under the category of a miniature arabian, they must be breed to a standard outside of their height.
It's choice if you want to allow them to not be exacting to breed standards, but... there is a chance you will limit who would be interested in your bloodlines, especially if your breeding stock is guaranteed or confirmed to throw a certain type of foal.

For me, specifically... I try to limit COI to a lower level to at least dissuade those unwanted traits that are still rampant in my herds. However, at the same time, if I have a foal born that really shows something I want, I will take those genes it carries and cross him or her to double my usual number of matches. I will even breed siblings together if they BOTH offer that same look, i.e. they are both carrying that same set of genes.
Being purebred for me is less important if that horse has the traits that I want. I can always breed back to true, but it might have an affect on my choice to purchase IF it is below a certain percentage or... if there are two of similar attributes, I would definitely give the purebred better marks toward purchasing.
It all depends on what I was looking for in breeding stock.

For showing, it all depends on past show performance, history of show performance in their pedigree and possibly the show performance of their offspring. Much less care would be held for confirmation to breed standard for strict showing purposes.

But that's my opinion.

[stephanie111]

Hey Guys,

So I started breeding a little more selectively again and I actually have a question/Debate for everyone.

How picky are you guys when it comes to the height of a purebred horse? I've been running into an issue with my breeding and I don't know if I want to be so selective that those really high GP horses get rehomed for being .01 too tall for the bred.

I've been breeding with the baladi's now and something I keep running into is my main male is 15HH, .1 from being maxed height. His foals are now going over the 15.1 HH, or below the 14HH for the breed. I just rehomed a 56k GP one for not reaching that 5* purebred because of his height. I wouldn't mind exactly, but then I wonder the more and more I get that HH to increase or decrease I move farther and farther away from the purebred requirement. Such that I could potientially have a 20HH baladi without crossing it with a draft, or vise versa a pony cross.
Now this could extend to the other four as well.

I want to be able to breed great horses of a purebred lineage as far as I can go. Yet, also be able to sale them if and when I wanted too.

So I guess my biggest question is, What attributes or pasts of a horses history do you consider a negative when buying a horse?

Like for me one of my things used to be COI till I realized it was more neutral, and I could at some point lower it if I wanted too. Mainly because the more difficult it is to breed a horse, the higher the COI is going to be as it would be harder to add in more lines of purebreds and unneeded crossing.

Now, When I buy a purebred, I check back in the horses linage to check to see if there was an unneeded cross added in. (mostly towards foundation(arab, NAB), and first cross purebreds(Baladi's, Ext,) If after about 10 generations I see nothing, I conclude it is probably safe to go ahead and add a horse to the breeding program.

Sizes, has never been an issue with me, but I also like the idea of one day maybe selling off stock so I try to keep to the 5* as best as possible. However, I am seriously considering dropping the HH Requirement of purebreds if I find people don't care as much.

W.B

I like to check the horse's progeny, and check that it is all pure. I understand that can not happen sometimes, but it helps me when I am trying to keep my like of arabs pure. Most mixes are rehomed. And for sizes, it has never mattered to me, but I have found that most people have been looking for *5 horses. I personally like a bit of height diference, but anything shorter then http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/604309 is usually not suitable in my program. I guess that becuase of the realistic touches the admin put in, everyone will want a horse that is closest to a real life example.

[Warband]

Hey Guys,
So I started breeding...
W.B

.

You know I never fully thought about that aspect of COI. I have been adding in more outside bloodlines for the Baladis to lower COI here and there.

I've not dove deep into the understanding of COI yet, because it never mattered until recently for me.

[BlackOak2]

.

You know I never fully thought about that aspect of COI. I have been adding in more outside bloodlines for the Baladis to lower COI here and there.

I've not dove deep into the understanding of COI yet, because it never mattered until recently for me.

It can have a very big impact on your herd. Especially if you have a trait that you don't want and it happens to be dominant, then with a high COI, you can almost guarantee that each one in your herd carries at least one copy, and quite possibly that most or even all (depending on COI, inbreeding and generation) have two copies of that same gene. It would take almost as many generations just to breed half of those genes out.
The Punnett square defines this very well.