Conformation does not make sense (to me)

[carlWoof]

Is it just me or do some of the conformation stats just don’t make any real life sense? At least pertaining to draft horses and strength/movement? They seem to be either just misguided, or based on arbitrary americanized stereotypical breed standards with no basis in reality.

I’ll preface this by saying in-game I am focusing on breeding drafties for strength, and that IANAE. I'll also note that yes, i am aware this is just a game and that some of these aren't even truly conformation landmarks and were concessions made to make the game more fun. But here goes:

Face profile

While it’s true that most american or americanized draft breeds have a roman profile, as do some show-bred european drafts, horses bred for actual work (logging) and pulling competitions typically have flat to *very slightly* convex features. E.g.



Then there's the quarter horses, which i don't think anyone will argue against being strong, with very flat profiles. In summation, there's very little correlation between strength and face profile (and in the game it's presented as one of the biggest strength factors for some reason), and even if there were, if anything, flat profiled horses appear to be the strongest breeds/specimens. The only reason roman profile is associated with draft horses and strength is the american-bred shires and halter belgians, and that's just an aesthetic choice. Fight me.

Jowl

The opposite could be said about the jowl. One look at breeds with stronger, more muscular baseline will tell you everything: shetlands, heavy draft breeds (esp. european), quarter horses. There is a very strong correlation between muscular build and jowl size/depth. In the game, however, the focus is solely on restriction of head and neck movement, which i guess is important for dressage and riding disciplines, but misses the other side of the equation completely. Stock horse jowl as an example:



Withers/Shoulder Angle

Shoulder angle is correct, but should probably be amended a little. Sloping shoulder is good for riding and racing because it lengthens the muscle and tendons and allows more room for movement. However, upright shoulders reduce the lengths of all the levers involved, which can be advantageous for disciplines that require more power - it should offer some slight bonuses to burst-of-power kinds of things like cutting, roping, sprinting. Example, a cutting horse:



Croup Height

Croup height in-game seems to be (graphically) presented as top-line more or less, which is slightly odd (as that's a combination of a couple of landmarks). Uphill horses are presented as flat-backed, with the croup completely in-line with back and the withers in a flat line. While this is - strictly speaking - correct, there are breed-specific variations in croup height and shape. Part of it is due to the fact the conformation standards judge (or attempt to) bone landmarks, not actual body shape, and more muscular breeds just have more muscling on the croup and/or more rounded off, peaked croups (croup is where the gluteus directly attaches). As a consequence, you'll find that in reality, breeds that are stronger and more muscular (drafts, sprinters) have *very prominent* croups, rather than croups that just merge into the top-line like in-game horses with a high Strength stat. E.g.





Note that the croup is still in-line with the withers (or even slightly above it), but the top line is radically different than the one you'll see in-game in strength-based record holders.

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There's more stuff, but these are just bigger things that struck me as odd. Now, you might point me to a particular wikipedia article and show me that the in-game descriptions are actually correct. And you'd be right - to a point. They're correct within a certain context - namely, and most importantly riding disciplines, and a specific build and set of horse breeds.

Most of these evaluation points have been made for and are *specifically* used for evaluating riding horses. Since this game is not just about riding, i feel that some adjustments might be necessary. If anything, because they're causing the functional draft horses bred in-game to look anything but the functional, competitive draft horses in reality (just look at that first photo in this post, and compare it to the record holders in-game).

That's it, rant over, i'm off my soapbox

[Tenacious Equine]

I 100% agree! Not to mention that real-life upper level dressage horses are generally of a much lighter build than the HWO ones (honestly, I think that if Agility replaced Strength as a dressage stat, it would help encourage lighter-type horses while still making sense from a realism standpoint, as the more advanced dressage maneuvers require a very agile horse).

[carlWoof]

Errr. I think i might've messed something up by editing my post for typos.
Seems to be gone. Sorry D:

[Hidalgo]

Errr. I think i might've messed something up by editing my post for typos.
Seems to be gone. Sorry D:

Your post is still there I know very little about conformation irl, so I learned some interesting stuff!

[carlWoof]

Errr. I think i might've messed something up by editing my post for typos.
Seems to be gone. Sorry D:

Your post is still there I know very little about conformation irl, so I learned some interesting stuff!

Don't take anything i write too seriously, i have absolutely 0 real life experience and am basing everything solely on what i've read in literature and on the web, and seen. That and the fact i seriously dislike the shape being bred into some of the in-game horses based on the conformation stats

[Hidalgo]

Your post is still there I know very little about conformation irl, so I learned some interesting stuff!

Don't take anything i write too seriously, i have absolutely 0 real life experience and am basing everything solely on what i've read in literature and on the web, and seen. That and the fact i seriously dislike the shape being bred into some of the in-game horses based on the conformation stats

Haha sure. I understand, sometimes getting the perfect conformation for what you want to compete your horses on in this game can produce some odd looking horses.

[carlWoof]

I 100% agree! Not to mention that real-life upper level dressage horses are generally of a much lighter build than the HWO ones (honestly, I think that if Agility replaced Strength as a dressage stat, it would help encourage lighter-type horses while still making sense from a realism standpoint, as the more advanced dressage maneuvers require a very agile horse).

Could've sworn i replied to this, but apparently, i have not.
Or maybe i forgot to Submit. Chalk it up to lack of sleep and umpteen coffees.

Yeah, even though i'm not breeding or competing anything beyond drafts, i've noticed some really odd body shapes in the rankings and competition results and went to look and sure enough, there's weird stuff all over the place. And yes, you're right, dressage horses look way too heavy.

[carlWoof]

Haha sure. I understand, sometimes getting the perfect conformation for what you want to compete your horses on in this game can produce some odd looking horses.

Some of the HWO body shapes i've bred for log pulls make me go

[Hidalgo]

Haha sure. I understand, sometimes getting the perfect conformation for what you want to compete your horses on in this game can produce some odd looking horses.

Some of the HWO body shapes i've bred for log pulls make me go

[Tenacious Equine]

Haha sure. I understand, sometimes getting the perfect conformation for what you want to compete your horses on in this game can produce some odd looking horses.

Some of the HWO body shapes i've bred for log pulls make me go

I hate how the draft types look on here… the legs (so short, so thick)… the LEVEL OF CHONK (extreme chonk. chonk to the max. chonk^2) the mega Roman noses…
I could never breed for strength, I dislike how it looks too much