Starting off breed

[Rikee]

Hello!
I read in a starting off guide that it is the most beneficial to rehome the AC horses and start breeding horses that someone would actually want to purchase. (And also that Tarpans are an unfortunate pick for the first breed, but it was too late by then). Is that true? How do I know which breeds are popular? Should I just check which breeds fetch the highest prices? And if I eventually find a suitable breed, do I buy one mare and breed her with a stallion for stud? Should both of these horses be purebred?
I really love Icelandics, but they aren't any on the market (Also, why are there called Ponies here but aren't listed under Pony breeds?). Should I breed them by crossing a Norwegian fjord to my tarpan? Or is there no guarantee that the cross will be be an Icelandic?

Additionally, did I understand it right that there's no genetic testing on this site? If true, does anyone know why the first foal I bred has an Appaloosa blanket? I'm not well versed in appaloosa spottings, but I believed them to be dominant. Both of the parents are dun on a black base with no additional genes, I believe (they're both AC Tarpans).
Here's a link to the colt!

I'm sorry for the questions, I'm just really lost without the tutorial, hehe.

[Charlette]

Hello!
I read in a starting off guide that it is the most beneficial to rehome the AC horses and start breeding horses that someone would actually want to purchase. (And also that Tarpans are an unfortunate pick for the first breed, but it was too late by then). Is that true? How do I know which breeds are popular? Should I just check which breeds fetch the highest prices? And if I eventually find a suitable breed, do I buy one mare and breed her with a stallion for stud? Should both of these horses be purebred?
I really love Icelandics, but they aren't any on the market (Also, why are there called Ponies here but aren't listed under Pony breeds?). Should I breed them by crossing a Norwegian fjord to my tarpan? Or is there no guarantee that the cross will be be an Icelandic?

Additionally, did I understand it right that there's no genetic testing on this site? If true, does anyone know why the first foal I bred has an Appaloosa blanket? I'm not well versed in appaloosa spottings, but I believed them to be dominant. Both of the parents are dun on a black base with no additional genes, I believe (they're both AC Tarpans).
Here's a link to the colt!

I'm sorry for the questions, I'm just really lost without the tutorial, hehe.

"I read in a starting off guide that it is the most beneficial to rehome the AC horses and start breeding horses that someone would actually want to purchase. (And also that Tarpans are an unfortunate pick for the first breed, but it was too late by then). Is that true? How do I know which breeds are popular? Should I just check which breeds fetch the highest prices?"

In a way, it is true. If you are trying to make money fast then choosing a popular breed would be the best route to take. The best way to find popular breeds is by looking at the breeds that sell for 20k+ in the market and at competition results. You should see that some popular breeds are Friesians, Thoroughbreds, Belgians, Arabians, and Quarter Horses. The reason why these breeds are popular is because they're commonly used for competitions. Friesians and Arabians for English disciplines(Arabians compete in Endurance too), Thoroughbreds for racing disciplines, Belgians for driving disciplines(they compete in log pull as well), and Quarter Horses for racing and western disciplines. Since these are typically used for competing, a good amount of players breed them to make money.

**Side note: Slightly off topic, but if you look in results and filter them to only show Belgians you will see a couple that are in racing. That is an example of a breed that has been modified by a player to do the complete opposite of what it usually does. That would be considered advanced so I won't go into the details, but it is pretty cool!**

With that being said, a horse breed may not be popular, but they have been/could still sell for a lot. For example, Russian Trotters bred by GrayGray, National Show Horse mixes bred by Retsi, and Irish Sport Horses bred by h0rsey. So, even if you decide to stick with Tarpans, if you put in a good amount of effort your horses could still sell for a lot regardless of not being the most popular breed. Though, if you are just starting off, it may be a good idea to start with more developed breeds. If you're up for the challenge, go for it! There are many guides about developing a breed that would aid you along the way. If thats what you choose, or for any other questions, I highly suggest you take a look at BlackOak2's quick links. There is a very well organized variety of guides that has pretty much anything in there including a beginners guide!

"And if I eventually find a suitable breed, do I buy one mare and breed her with a stallion for stud? Should both of these horses be purebred?"

The amount of mares you buy should be based on how much room you have. If you have a good amount of room, you should buy 2+ mares just so the COI(incest) doesn't go to high. It doesn't really matter though. When you're starting out the COI will likely be high anyways but you can balance it out by using studs/buying stallions.

Speaking of buying stallions, I suggest that you do invest in buying a stallion or two because stud fees do add up. If the fee is 200 it may seem cheap at first but depending on how much you have and how many times you breed the stud that 200 could easily turn into 1,000+. So, it may be in your best interest to invest in buying a stallion rather than paying stud fees. I don't mean don't use studs at all but use it in moderation so you don't bankrupt yourself!

Purebred horses are usually more valuable so you should look for purebred horses so you have purebred offspring. If you're not trying to sell horses and just want to play around with the breeding concept then use whatever horses you'd like! Even mixed breed horses sell depending on what breeds are mixed

"I really love Icelandics, but they aren't any on the market (Also, why are there called Ponies here but aren't listed under Pony breeds?). Should I breed them by crossing a Norwegian fjord to my tarpan? Or is there no guarantee that the cross will be be an Icelandic?"

"The Icelandic horse stands on average between 13 and 14 hands, which would qualify the Icelandic horse as a pony. Yet, the Icelandic horse is not referred to as a pony, making it one of the many exception to the definition. The reasons include the temperament and character of the Icelandic horse." I found that online. Here is the article if you're interested in reading more.
**Off-site Link** https://icelandmag.is/article/why-are-i ... ndic-horse

In order to breed an Icelandic Pony you need to breed a Tarpan and a Norwegian Fjord together. So yes, you should breed them by crossing a Norwegian Fjord to your Tarpan. Make sure you do an eval using the appropriate book on your horses to make sure you have the best horses that could help you achieve your goal.

When you attempt to get a new breed, you might not get it on the first try. Successfully breeding an Icelandic Pony isn't guaranteed but if you keep trying you are likely to get a couple. I'm not sure what the success percentage is for creating breeds but we can just go with 50/50 just to make it easier to understand. 50% chance you'll successfully breed an Icelandic Pony and 50% chance you'll end up with a Tarpan x Norwegian Fjord instead.

Additionally, did I understand it right that there's no genetic testing on this site? If true, does anyone know why the first foal I bred has an Appaloosa blanket? I'm not well versed in appaloosa spottings, but I believed them to be dominant. Both of the parents are dun on a black base with no additional genes, I believe (they're both AC Tarpans).

I'm not sure what you mean by genetic testing but I am going to assume that you mean what colors a foal is connecting to their sire/dam. I reckon the reason why you foal has tobiano is because of their mother. If you look closely near the hoof of their mother, you can see a streak of white. That's a really small sock which is likely what resulted in the tobiano on the foal. If you breed the pair again, there may or may not be as much tobiano on the foal.

Here is a good reference for colors with visual guides that will help you with distinguishing genetics.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2158

If you have anymore questions or want me to elaborate on anything feel free to ask! I wish you the best of luck with whatever you choose to do. If you're low on funds I will gladly give you a little to help you get started.

[Rikee]

Thank you so much for your reply, it was really helpful! Especially with the quick links, there's a lot to look at. I guess it will take a while to learn the ropes (:

"If you have a good amount of room, you should buy 2+ mares just so the COI(incest) doesn't go to high. It doesn't really matter though. When you're starting out the COI will likely be high anyways but you can balance it out by using studs/buying stallions."
Wouldn't it make more sense to use a stud every time, because the alternatives would be inbreeding or very frequently buying new stallions? Or are there not enough stallions for stud to something like that? Differently put, is it smarter to be "self-sustained"?

I know Icelandics are technically ponies, height-wise! I am just confused because in real life, they are ponies but are called horses, but on site are called ponies but are considered horses.

"When you attempt to get a new breed, you might not get it on the first try. Successfully breeding an Icelandic Pony isn't guaranteed but if you keep trying you are likely to get a couple. I'm not sure what the success percentage is for creating breeds but we can just go with 50/50 just to make it easier to understand. 50% chance you'll successfully breed an Icelandic Pony and 50% chance you'll end up with a Tarpan x Norwegian Fjord instead."
If a horses gets a 5 when compared with a book, are those the best possible chances? So if I breed two fives together, will the offspring have a better chance than 50/50? And also, what if a breed recipe deliberately calls for a cross? Would it be better to then breed parents that evaluate badly to the book, so the foal doesn't automatically "become" a purebred?

"I'm not sure what you mean by genetic testing but I am going to assume that you mean what colors a foal is connecting to their sire/dam. I reckon the reason why you foal has tobiano is because of their mother. If you look closely near the hoof of their mother, you can see a streak of white. That's a really small sock which is likely what resulted in the tobiano on the foal."
Yes, I meant testing their colour through their DNA, I'm sorry for not specifying enough! I never knew Tobiano could be as minimal as that, that is so interesting!

Another question, do the breeder's comments hint at what the conformation might be, or are they completely separate?

I hope you don't mind me following up with these questions! Again, thank you so much.

[Charlette]

Thank you so much for your reply, it was really helpful! Especially with the quick links, there's a lot to look at. I guess it will take a while to learn the ropes (:

"If you have a good amount of room, you should buy 2+ mares just so the COI(incest) doesn't go to high. It doesn't really matter though. When you're starting out the COI will likely be high anyways but you can balance it out by using studs/buying stallions."
Wouldn't it make more sense to use a stud every time, because the alternatives would be inbreeding or very frequently buying new stallions? Or are there not enough stallions for stud to something like that? Differently put, is it smarter to be "self-sustained"?

I know Icelandics are technically ponies, height-wise! I am just confused because in real life, they are ponies but are called horses, but on site are called ponies but are considered horses.

"When you attempt to get a new breed, you might not get it on the first try. Successfully breeding an Icelandic Pony isn't guaranteed but if you keep trying you are likely to get a couple. I'm not sure what the success percentage is for creating breeds but we can just go with 50/50 just to make it easier to understand. 50% chance you'll successfully breed an Icelandic Pony and 50% chance you'll end up with a Tarpan x Norwegian Fjord instead."
If a horses gets a 5 when compared with a book, are those the best possible chances? So if I breed two fives together, will the offspring have a better chance than 50/50? And also, what if a breed recipe deliberately calls for a cross? Would it be better to then breed parents that evaluate badly to the book, so the foal doesn't automatically "become" a purebred?

"I'm not sure what you mean by genetic testing but I am going to assume that you mean what colors a foal is connecting to their sire/dam. I reckon the reason why you foal has tobiano is because of their mother. If you look closely near the hoof of their mother, you can see a streak of white. That's a really small sock which is likely what resulted in the tobiano on the foal."
Yes, I meant testing their colour through their DNA, I'm sorry for not specifying enough! I never knew Tobiano could be as minimal as that, that is so interesting!

Another question, do the breeder's comments hint at what the conformation might be, or are they completely separate?

I hope you don't mind me following up with these questions! Again, thank you so much.

"Wouldn't it make more sense to use a stud every time, because the alternatives would be inbreeding or very frequently buying new stallions? Or are there not enough stallions for stud to something like that? Differently put, is it smarter to be "self-sustained"?"

It's really just the stud fees adding up that makes me suggest that you try not to use them too much. If you have the funds for it then go ahead! But like I said, make sure you use them in moderation so you don't bankrupt yourself. Even if you have the funds, being self-sustained/not developing a reliance on studs would be better in the long run. COI can always be lowered later down the line once you have some Icelandic Ponies so it's fine if it's high at first. I wouldn't worry about the COI too much right now, just thought I'd throw that in there since a lot of breeders try to watch the COI levels as well.

"If a horses gets a 5 when compared with a book, are those the best possible chances? So if I breed two fives together, will the offspring have a better chance than 50/50? And also, what if a breed recipe deliberately calls for a cross? Would it be better to then breed parents that evaluate badly to the book, so the foal doesn't automatically "become" a purebred?"

A horse with a 5* eval is the most likely to help with successfully achieving a breed. The 50/50 was just a reference to get across the point that you may or may not successfully breed what you're trying to get, but I'd assume it would be a little better or at 50/50. You'd have to ask the admins about the exact percentage.

The goal is to get a purebred of whatever breed you're trying to get. If it's not a purebred, you did not successfully breed it. So you should try to get the highest eval possible so it would result in a success.

Yes, I meant testing their colour through their DNA, I'm sorry for not specifying enough! I never knew Tobiano could be as minimal as that, that is so interesting!

I know right! I love how there is a variety of colors you could get in this game! I also love the surprises that result from missing the small things. <3

Another question, do the breeder's comments hint at what the conformation might be, or are they completely separate?

I hope you don't mind me following up with these questions! Again, thank you so much.

The breeder's comments do have a tendency to hint what the conformation may be. Sometimes they can give a pretty accurate idea and sometimes they could give something that seems like its the opposite of the conformation. Good breeder's comments are also a window into seeing a horse with potential good heart. A horse with a bad conformation could have a good comment which shows heart. A horse with good heart usually does well in competitions. Though they do usually do better there are exceptions.

For example here are two horses that seem like they're on complete different tiers potential-heart wise but the successful one isn't as obvious as it seems.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3157629
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3177886

66 34 and Eternal Roses were bred for the same discipline(Hunter) but 66 34 has a much better conformation and br than Eternal Roses but preformed not nearly as well as Eternal Roses. This is a good example of how great comments and conformation could still result in poor performance and also aren't the only things that contribute to a well preforming horse. 66 34 had a high score of around 45 while Eternal Roses has a high score of 55.

Speaking of performance, it may be in your best interest to think about a discipline you may be interested in breeding for. No need to change anything you're doing now to fit that, it's just a good idea to have that in the back of your brain so if/when you decide to breed competitively it won't be as dramatic of a transition. It would also be less confusing since you'd likely know a decent amount about that discipline. Anyways, just focus on breeding for now so you don't get overwhelmed.

Also, I don't mind the follow-up questions! It's great to know enough to be able to share my knowledge with other players. You are asking all the right questions and I'm sure you will have Icelandic Ponies in no time!

With that being said, if you have any more questions feel free to ask!

[Rikee]

Hi, hope you don’t mind the late reply!

And also, what if a breed recipe deliberately calls for a cross?

What I meant with that question as actually what happens when I need a cross but I accidentally breed a purebred. If I’m trying to breed a Mongolian, for which I need a Tarpan x Przewalski, but that pairing produces an Exmoor Pony, can I still use it to breed it with a Tarpan and get a Mongolian? I suspect not, so is it important to check that the parents evaluate low on the breeds I’m not trying to breed?
I think that’s my final question, thank you so much for helping me!

[Charlette]

Hi, hope you don’t mind the late reply!

And also, what if a breed recipe deliberately calls for a cross?

What I meant with that question as actually what happens when I need a cross but I accidentally breed a purebred. If I’m trying to breed a Mongolian, for which I need a Tarpan x Przewalski, but that pairing produces an Exmoor Pony, can I still use it to breed it with a Tarpan and get a Mongolian? I suspect not, so is it important to check that the parents evaluate low on the breeds I’m not trying to breed?
I think that’s my final question, thank you so much for helping me!

That's a great question! I don't believe you can achieve a breed using something that was accidentally bred during a crossing.