Getting frustrated with creating a new breed

[robynreddress]

So, I'm trying to create a Missouri Fox Trotter. The problem is, it is a pony type medium light-medium.... but the parent breeds are all horse type/light horse type. So I've been trying mixed breeds, but am having trouble with the pony type aspect. The requirements for the MFT do not match the parent breeds, so I've got quite a few mutts.

Parents are:
[Spanish Barb x Morgan] x American Saddlebred


Advice? Has this happened to you?

[Argent II]

I'd say find a ponyish Spanish Barb, or breed a Mixed ASB by breeding to a Prze x Tarp cross several times.

[Aconite]

As someone who owns a Missouri Fox Trotter in real life, I'd love to help out in any way possible. You can PM me if you'd like.

[cattus]

While not a guaranteed success with every breeding, I have "reshaped" a line of Arabians into pony-types while working on my target. I'm currently reshaping a Thoroughbred line for another pony breed I want.

If Argent's method doesn't work for you, here's what I did to get what I needed.

For the TB line, I started with some market purchases of Przewalskis, Shetlands, and Tarpans. I created cross-breeds from that, keeping foals that met or came close to my target conformation (checked by evaluating against the breed book). The cross-breeds produced my grades -- a little shorter than I needed because of the Shetland, but manageable.

I picked up some TBs on the market, looking for smaller and horse or medium horse type. I crossed them with my grades, again, keeping the foals that evaluate well for my target. I'll keep crossing the part TBs until I get back to pure. Then I'll use that new, pure pony-type TB to create my next step in the target.

My way takes a little longer, but I've had decent results. I achieved my first target (Haflingers) just this weekend. I'll probably use this same method to get the flaxen chestnut I need to make them truly Haflingers.

Good luck!

[robynreddress]

I've been trying to get some ponyish Americans, but I suppose it will take several generations.

[Syn]

I bred Hackneys for a time while waiting for gelderlanders, groningen, and fells to be available to create hackney ponies and dutch harness horses. I reshaped a line of hackneys to suit both crosses - I had a line of hackneys that were smaller and more dainty horse types to cross with Fells for hackney ponies, and I had a line of larger, much more robust hackneys that I had crossed with some pony type TBx's to make the DHH cross easier.

The hackneys I used for the DHH cross in the end mostly rated 4* Dutch Harness and 1* or N/A for Hackney. When I finally got gelderlander/groningen, they were all 3* or 4* Dutch Harness and I had no problem getting DHH foals as a result.

Sometimes in order to get what you want, you need to do a little work work on what you have. If your breed is created by [spanish barb x morgan] x saddlebred and all of those breeds are typically light horse types, take a line of saddlebreds and select for higher body size and lower horse type, or take a short cut and outcross to a heavier ponier stallion to get the traits you want. Select foals higher body size and lower horse/higher pony type to breed on and backcross until you get medium pony-type part ASBs which you can then use to create the MFT.

[reyn]

I've also reshaped breeds for my purposes. For instance, for Welsh Cobs I need heavy pony types with big Body Size. So I've bred Belgian x Tarpans which seem to produce the closest Welsh Cob evaluations, and then bred these to Welsh Ponies, Hackneys, Norfolk Trotters and Spanish Barbs to create half breds as a Welsh Cob requires a (Welsh Pony x Hackney) x (Norfolk Trotter x Spanish Barb) and none of these breeds have the bulk needed for Welsh Cobs.

I am also using this method with my Knabstruppers as again they are quite small and bulky and my Frederiksborgs and Spanish Barbs weren't meeting this.... I also wanted to add spots . So I have been crossing Tarpans with Forest Horses to create the type needed, then breeding this back to Frederiksborgs and Spanish Barbs for half breds which I then use to create a Knabstrupper.

[robynreddress]

I took this advice, and I almost have 4 star parent breeds now!