A bunch of youngsters

[Tjigra]

So I have a new collection of youngsters I am not completely sure about colour wise.
This one is red dun, right?
Tungusk


Is this at last a palomino without dun?
True Donna C


This one too?
Alfirk C


Judging by the pink nose and blue eyes, she is double cream, but on what base?
Iskra C


Do the lighter legs mean she is hiding flaxen beneath palomino?
VHF Rusty Mudhahal


And last but not least - where did the pangare come from?
Ursus C

[Parsnip]

I'm pretty sure Iscra is perlino, not double cream. If she was double cream, both parents would show it. Maybe dun as well? Bay base?
I can't see any dun in the palominos, though I'm not the best at spotting cryptic dun.
You're right about the red dun. You only get that bright red mane from dun.

[Tjigra]

I'm pretty sure Iscra is perlino, not double cream. If she was double cream, both parents would show it. Maybe dun as well? Bay base?

Perlino is double cream - two creams on bay. She can very well be - both parents are single creams, sire is smokey brown, dam is dunskin. And might as well be dun, since her dam is. Now that you mention it, I think I see some striping on her hindlegs. So perlino dun?

About the cryptic duns, anyone? I am not too good at spotting those either. I've been surely wrong about them before, and my herd is plagued by the cryptic dun.

About the last one, the mystic pangare - can anyone spot any pangare on Ursus' sire? I've noticed he has another loud pangare foal from a seemingly clear mare, so that should be him.
Undo C

[Parsnip]

I'm pretty sure Iscra is perlino, not double cream. If she was double cream, both parents would show it. Maybe dun as well? Bay base?

Perlino is double cream - two creams on bay. She can very well be - both parents are single creams, sire is smokey brown, dam is dunskin. And might as well be dun, since her dam is. Now that you mention it, I think I see some striping on her hindlegs. So perlino dun?

About the cryptic duns, anyone? I am not too good at spotting those either. I've been surely wrong about them before, and my herd is plagued by the cryptic dun.

About the last one, the mystic pangare - can anyone spot any pangare on Ursus' sire? I've noticed he has another loud pangare foal from a seemingly clear mare, so that should be him.
Undo C

Now I see the cream on Iscra's sire- I thought smokey brown would be lighter. Plus he's appy. I'm still learning!
Do still think she's pearl rather than cream, though - I've only seen that dark muzzle on perlinos.
I've just compared my dunalino with your palominos- she has a slightly washed out body and bright legs. Yours are one colour all over. this is herPale Spring

[BlackOak2]

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I'm two-centing in!

Tungusk: Chestnut, Dun, Tiger Eye, Lp. So I agree with your assumption.

True Donna C: Single Cream, on chestnut. Palomino and I see no indications of dun at all. So I would agree, no dun.

Alfirk C: Single cream, Lp, on chestnut. Palomino blanket and again, I see no indication of dun on this one either. Again, I agree, no dun.

Iskra C: Double Cream, Dun, Bay Base. For bay, the legs will still give it away even on a double cream; brown, black and chestnut are much more uniform in body color.

VHF Rusty Mudhahal: Straight question, straight answer. Yes, this is a characteristic some (not all) chestnuts with flaxen will offer. Belgians seem to have a very strong expression of this type of flaxen. Don't let it confuse you with dun (colors the back of the ankle) and pangare (colors uniformly up the legs, not just the legs with no other markers).

Ursus C: Another straight question, another straight answer. It came from the sire. I've experienced trying to breed out this type of cryptic pangare from my leopard tarpan line (with blatantly NO success). But when crossed over into a line with the gene to express brightly, cryptic pangare reveals itself quite plainly (belgians are excellent for this, you can even use a belgian with no pangare and it will still give a brilliantly expressed result).
On his sire, Undo C, there is the barest hint of a lighter bay coloration smacking up against the black nose, before it shifts just a shade darker. Although, this isn't as bad a cryptic as I've had in my own lines, this is just about as close.
If you take a close-up pic of his face, you may be able to see it better.


As for cream versus pearl:
Pearl can never hide under two conditions: It's doubled or it's paired with a cream.
So, these are also true:
1) A double pearl can never come from two creams.
2) A double pearl can never come from a cream and a solid (unexpressed dilute).
3) A single pearl can never hide with a cream gene (you will result in blue eyes and pink skin).
4) A double dilute can come from a single cream and a solid (in this case it's a cream & pearl).
5) A double dilute can come from a double dilute and a solid (also, this would be a cream & pearl).
6) A double dilute can come from two solids (double pearl, should express dark eyes and pink skin).

Those truths are assuming that smoky black and plain black are not confused.

Using these guidelines, Pale Spring is a single cream carrier with no pearl. She also has dun. If she was a double dilute (two pearls or a cream and a pearl) she'd look like a double dilute. She came from a double dilute and a solid. So regardless of whether Rex, her sire, has a hidden pearl, he did not pass it on. And her mother, Avalanche is at the very least a cream & pearl, and most likely a double cream (although I'm assuming that, I didn't back-check her pedigree any further), and offered only a cream onward onto her daughter.

I hope that helps!

[Tjigra]

Iskra C: Double Cream, Dun, Bay Base. For bay, the legs will still give it away even on a double cream; brown, black and chestnut are much more uniform in body color.

Thanks!
So Iskra is double cream on bay with dun - that would be perlino dun or is there another name for that? I am really bad with everything more that two dilutes and trying to stay clear of them all

[BlackOak2]

Iskra C: Double Cream, Dun, Bay Base. For bay, the legs will still give it away even on a double cream; brown, black and chestnut are much more uniform in body color.

Thanks!
So Iskra is double cream on bay with dun - that would be perlino dun or is there another name for that? I am really bad with everything more that two dilutes and trying to stay clear of them all

That's the color name I'd call it. Whether there is another more appropriate name or not, like calling a chestnut roan a strawberry roan, I choose to indicate color combinations I immediately recognize, not necessarily the ultra-correct. So if you choose to say: double cream on bay with dun, then use that instead. At the very least, YOU'LL understand and remember it. After all, it's your horse and if you care about the color or also the color genes, then you should be able to look at it and recall it immediately (not have to go back into notes to figure it out every time).

If you choose to get more correct later, then when you get used to the colors, you can upgrade your names at that time.